The HRE don't even have the strongest men at arms

[Tamasin]

The Delhi ones are stronger.

HRE is just sad

[Cacomistle]

The Delhi ones have +3 and forced march ability. The HRE ones have +2, +3 vs armored, +15hp, and 10% movement speed. I wouldn't call the Delhi ones better, but they're somewhat comparable, and require a lot less investment as an early castle unit.

I actually think Chinese have the best maa. Palace guard have a +30 hp upgrade, and palace guard with yuan dynasty have like 1.52 movespeed or something (can't remember exactly what it was, but I'm pretty sure it was 1.5x). They're basically like knight speed. Could also go with ming which would make them like +50 hp or something over regular maa. They also get their speed for free at the very beginning of castle age, whereas HRE has to pay for their upgrades (and the 3 combined cost more gold than yuan dynasty does), and Delhi does get their upgrade for free but it takes a few minutes to research.

[Tamasin]

I mean, I just had a match against Delhi as HRE. The Delhi men at arms clearly overwhelmed the HRE ones.

This ♥♥♥♥ broke me.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by von Hühnerstall:

I mean, I just had a match against Delhi as HRE. The Delhi men at arms clearly overwhelmed the HRE ones.

This ♥♥♥♥ broke me.

He probably just had more than you, especially cause delhi don't have to pay for the +3 whereas you have to pay just to upgrade your maa to castle age and for the mace/2h upgrades. That's not the actual stats of the maa, yours definitely win with an effective +5 +15hp (or +6 if you don't get the 2h tech).

[banetrapperdev]

I once english castle age rushed enemy with 10 vills i made castle next to his town in 1v1... Then i made trebuchet, and had about 40-50 men at arms. HRE had about 20, ran them into my castle + my men at arms. And my castle does 0 dmg to them, and my english men at arms just melted, i was so confused.
Aparently upgraded HRE men at arms are like 200%-300% better then english men at arms.... 1v1

[Antpile]

If you are facing mostly enemy MAA, you only want the mace upgrade. Not the 2 handed. I mean, if you get the 2 handed, it works out pretty close to the same. You are doing less damage to enemy MAA with 2 handed maces compared to 1h maces, but that extra 15 hp helps.

But you can save the money on the 2h upgrade and do really well with just the mace upgrade. 2h upgrade helps with killing things that aren't armored, like spearmen and archers. If you are fighting knights or MAA, you don't need the 2h upgrade at all.

With just the mace upgrade, your MAA do regular damage +6 vs heavy armor. With both the 2h upgrade and mace upgrade, they do regular damage +2, with an additional +3 versus heavy armor. So you actually do less damage to armor with 2h maces over 1h maces.

It doesn't make a lot of sense and some people wonder if it is a bug, but that's the way it is right now.

Delhi just gets +3 damage for MAA. HRE should be able to easily outclass that with only the 1h mace upgrade.