China too OP, pls nerf

[Greywolf]

Yesterday it was England, Mongols and France that were OP, now as the meta evolves I can see people complaining about China, Tomorrow it will probably be Abbasid of Dehli, and in the end if all civilizations are OP doesn't that mean none of them are?

Are there truly any OP civilizations in this game or do those who are making the claim that a particular civ is overpowered just suck?

[youtube khorix]

I think we find something OP the moment we discover it, Unless it is broken like the french hulk in water. Then we can say that this is why it is better to slowly let the game evolve then change things as needed.

China does have Crazy cannons late game, that is a fact. I've played a couple games against China and the most success I've had is when I hard rush them or when I play way much more greedy than them and build such an economy lead that I can just constantly spam units and stay 200/200

[Harris]

This calls for clarification. Up until recently, the meta was exclusively dictated by competetive players and Youtubers and all those tier lists only considered 1v1 - simply because nobody bothered to pay attention to team scene and it was silent in return. While 1v1 values the civ's immediate strengths and boni it can capitalize on early, team games tend to last longer and allow civs to reach their full potential.

That is why we have two different realities here. English is strong in 1v1 because of that short lived power spike in feudal, yet is hardly as good in 4v4 with its unimpressive and trivial military in imperial and post-imperial. Chinese is garbage in 1v1 because it's extremely weak early on and that's all that matters in that mode, yet they absolutely dominate team games because of the absurd amount of late game boni.

When talking OP, people mean really crazy, cheap and disgusting strats, that are hillariously overperforming compared to what you need to pull it off.

A blob of Fire Lancers with Yuan runs faster than any cav so is virtually untouchable, and takes seconds to delete any landmark or wonder from existence. The only requirement for it to go online is for Chinese player to survive until castle, and the only counter is to wall the whole map, then wall around landmarks, then specifically go out of your way to hide the landmarks in the most deserted areas of the map. This leads to every game involving Chinese (and every game involves one, they're team games meta now) becoming Fire Lancer-fest and two blobs running around in a bid who wipes the enemy's landmarks first.

[fmalfeas]

Every civ is strong. It depends WHEN their strength shows up in full though. England and HRE are pretty steady. They're strong in every era, but this means they don't have anything at imperial that is just utterly disgusting unless it's a stack of synergies built up from earlier eras (like england having enough 'Network of Castles' built up that you can't viably fight them without dealing with it.)

China and Dehli freak people out though, because they assume that if there's not some super-powerful thing in age 2, and only moderately powerful things in age 3, that it's not gonna get worse. But much of china and dehli's power is backloaded. If you let them come into their own, you've made a serious problem for yourself. It's not like they're so OP they can't lose, but you'd best be ready to get serious about things.

But even then, they only show their full strength with the right circumstances. Dehli requires massive food and gold supply. So disrupting that can stop Dumbogeddon. China has mastery of defense, so you either need to prevent them from properly digging in, or bring a push designed to shatter stone walls, keeps, and blast down artillery. An armored force, because you can expect their auto-repairing stone walls to have ranged forces on top, with artillery behind, placed for supporting fire.

Don't let china turtle the sacred sites, or a wonder. Ever. It will cause you to lose most likely.

[fmalfeas]

I'll also note that the counter to fire lancers isn't just walls. It's walls /with crossbows on top/. You shoot them down. They're not that sturdy, so if they have to run through a crossbow gauntlet, the losses will be catastrophic.

Also, a lesson from AoE2 - never leave anything important undefended. Ever.

[Zansibar]

Dunno bois im on a 10 winstreak as China in 1v1/2v2 lmao

[Eric]

probably they need to git gud

[MVRK99]

French Knights are OP. WITHOUT A DOUBT.

[Huanglukuzhu]

I think it because every civ lack a second choice, op tactic has no opportunity to be countered.