Why cavalry can go into towers and shoot arrows?

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

it is especially insulting with French cavalry as it literally makes French more op, because it can even kill spears without risking your cavalry by using towers....

edit: proof that you indeed can move your cavalry to tower, and tower will shoot (if you need additional proof I will record this with bot, but for now tooltip explains everything - "attacks while garrisoned")
https://streamable.com/ltjngc

[Burjis]

You can also garrison elephants in towers. Go figure!

[TsudaTumiko]

lol

[Lederhosen Django]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DaMetzger:

You know they can dismount? They are not centaurs. The obvious question is of course where are the horses while they are in the tower.

They stay at the towers underground parking slots ;-)

[COOL EPIC SKELETON]

whats the matter? never heard of horse archers?

[COOL EPIC SKELETON]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Burjis:

You can also garrison elephants in towers. Go figure!

they should keep this in the game but do what 2DE did with transport ships and have the elephants comically poking out of the viewports

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Chef Excellence:

whats the matter? never heard of horse archers?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Zaxx:

Why not? Elephants can go into them too just like how every unit can get into a transport or garrison into a building etc. From a gameplay standpoint it wouldn't make a lot of sense to exclude towers from that list.

In AoE 2 I kinda have to force myself to remember that cavalry can only garrison castles even though boarding transports work, garrisoning to the stable on spawn works etc. but towers? Oh no, we can't have that but we can have 10 elephants getting on a tiny boat.

So, I will start as French, go as always School of Cavalry, make cavalry, build tower near your resources. And I will start harrasing your units with said cavalry, when you make spears, I will jump them into the tower and kill your spears, who will run into your tower, because who needs archer, when you can invest 100 wood into tower [instead of needing to invest additional 50 into range + and archer cost].

Compared to Age of Empires 2, every unit in Age of Empires 4 can shoot arrows. If you can't see how broken it makes any civ with early knights and proper early villager / wood bonus, then I don't feel that you can understand my main issue with it.

As for elephants, I don't really care - they come at castle age when towers drop off pretty badly.

[Blithe Bob]

You should make more clear what your argument is. Do you think knights shouldn´t go into towers because that is "unrealistic" or because you think it is a bad game mechanic that makes knights too good or is it a France is op issue?

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DaMetzger:

You should make more clear what your argument is. Do you think knights shouldn´t go into towers because that is "unrealistic" or because you think it is a bad game mechanic that makes knights too good or is it a France is op issue?

all of those.

And I don't see any valid reason why cavalry should be able to enter the towers, period.

[Zaxx]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sir Rage A Lot:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Chef Excellence:

whats the matter? never heard of horse archers?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Zaxx:

Why not? Elephants can go into them too just like how every unit can get into a transport or garrison into a building etc. From a gameplay standpoint it wouldn't make a lot of sense to exclude towers from that list.

In AoE 2 I kinda have to force myself to remember that cavalry can only garrison castles even though boarding transports work, garrisoning to the stable on spawn works etc. but towers? Oh no, we can't have that but we can have 10 elephants getting on a tiny boat.

So, I will start as French, go as always School of Cavalry, make cavalry, build tower near your resources. And I will start harrasing your units with said cavalry, when you make spears, I will jump them into the tower and kill your spears, who will run into your tower, because who needs archer, when you can invest 100 wood into tower [instead of needing to invest additional 50 into range + and archer cost].

Compared to Age of Empires 2, every unit in Age of Empires 4 can shoot arrows. If you can't see how broken it makes any civ with early knights and proper early villager / wood bonus, then I don't feel that you can understand my main issue with it.

As for elephants, I don't really care - they come at castle age when towers drop off pretty badly.

Sorry but this just seems to be another one of those "it's not how it was in AoE 2 so it's bad" arguments. Even if there is a balance issue (and it doesn't seem to be that way tbh) removing a feature is not a solution. AoE 2-ifying AoE 4 shouldn't be one either.

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Zaxx:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sir Rage A Lot:

So, I will start as French, go as always School of Cavalry, make cavalry, build tower near your resources. And I will start harrasing your units with said cavalry, when you make spears, I will jump them into the tower and kill your spears, who will run into your tower, because who needs archer, when you can invest 100 wood into tower [instead of needing to invest additional 50 into range + and archer cost].

Compared to Age of Empires 2, every unit in Age of Empires 4 can shoot arrows. If you can't see how broken it makes any civ with early knights and proper early villager / wood bonus, then I don't feel that you can understand my main issue with it.

As for elephants, I don't really care - they come at castle age when towers drop off pretty badly.

Sorry but this just seems to be another one of those "it's not how it was in AoE 2 so it's bad" arguments. Even if there is a balance issue (and it doesn't seem to be that way tbh) removing a feature is not a solution. AoE 2-ifying AoE 4 shouldn't be one either.

Have you seen horsemen going into towers in
- Stronghold
- Castle Strike
- Total War Games

I did not.

Also I gave arguments besides comparison to AoE2. As it goes for standalone experience, not only cavalry is mobile in this game, it also can shoot arrows from towers which effectively renders spears useless if player invest ONE vill and 100 wood in forward vil.

[Many-Named]

they're humans riding horses, not centaurs. They can dismount.

[TK-421]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DaMetzger:

You should make more clear what your argument is. Do you think knights shouldn´t go into towers because that is "unrealistic" or because you think it is a bad game mechanic that makes knights too good or is it a France is op issue?

Does anyone really need to explain why horses and elephants being able to garrison into guard towers is the dumbest thing ever and has never happened in the history of ever? Horses, let alone Elephants, don't walk through human doorways and up a flight of stairs to let the rider shoot arrows off it's back. It's seriously the dumbest thing ever.

[Many-Named]

Początkowo opublikowane przez -=JiX=-:

Początkowo opublikowane przez DaMetzger:

You should make more clear what your argument is. Do you think knights shouldn´t go into towers because that is "unrealistic" or because you think it is a bad game mechanic that makes knights too good or is it a France is op issue?

Does anyone really need to explain why horses and elephants being able to garrison into guard towers is the dumbest thing ever and has never happened in the history of ever? Horses, let alone Elephants, don't walk through human doorways and up a flight of stairs to let the rider shoot arrows off it's back. It's seriously the dumbest thing ever.

''you must construct additional pylons'' by your brain.


Here is from the dictionary:

dismount

Definitions
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
intransitive verb To get off or down, as from a horse.
intransitive verb To unseat or throw off, as from a horse.
noun The act or manner of dismounting, especially from a horse.
noun Sports A move in gymnastics whereby the gymnast gets off an apparatus or
To get off from a horse or other ridden animal; descend or alight, as a rider from the saddle: as, the officer ordered his troops to dismount.
To throw or bring down from a horse; unhorse: as, the soldier dismounted his adversary.

[TK-421]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Many-Named:

Początkowo opublikowane przez -=JiX=-:

Does anyone really need to explain why horses and elephants being able to garrison into guard towers is the dumbest thing ever and has never happened in the history of ever? Horses, let alone Elephants, don't walk through human doorways and up a flight of stairs to let the rider shoot arrows off it's back. It's seriously the dumbest thing ever.

''you must construct additional pylons'' by your brain.


Here is from the dictionary:

dismount

Definitions
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
intransitive verb To get off or down, as from a horse.
intransitive verb To unseat or throw off, as from a horse.
noun The act or manner of dismounting, especially from a horse.
noun Sports A move in gymnastics whereby the gymnast gets off an apparatus or
To get off from a horse or other ridden animal; descend or alight, as a rider from the saddle: as, the officer ordered his troops to dismount.
To throw or bring down from a horse; unhorse: as, the soldier dismounted his adversary.

Yea, that's exactly the point. They don't dismount :} the horse and rider go into the tower together as 1. I've owned horses dude, I know what I'm talking about. Horses and Elephants have never garrisoned into a watch tower ever in history.

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

Początkowo opublikowane przez -=JiX=-:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Many-Named:

''you must construct additional pylons'' by your brain.


Here is from the dictionary:

dismount

Definitions
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
intransitive verb To get off or down, as from a horse.
intransitive verb To unseat or throw off, as from a horse.
noun The act or manner of dismounting, especially from a horse.
noun Sports A move in gymnastics whereby the gymnast gets off an apparatus or
To get off from a horse or other ridden animal; descend or alight, as a rider from the saddle: as, the officer ordered his troops to dismount.
To throw or bring down from a horse; unhorse: as, the soldier dismounted his adversary.

Yea, that's exactly the point. They don't dismount :} the horse and rider go into the tower together as 1. I've owned horses dude, I know what I'm talking about. Horses and Elephants have never garrisoned into a watch tower ever in history.

Can you kill horse which should be outside the tower?

I give the least crap about "realistic" side of things. My issue with that is simple
- Knights being already mobile and pretty hard hitting unit also have break-of-jail card with tower garrison. So literally you can build your tower near enemy, raid him with knights and even kill his spears with tower having KNIGHTS inside.