Best gunpowder civ?

[dwrfz]

Being a fan of kaboom warfare I wonder what is the best civ for that kind of gameplay.
China is a gunpowder civ according to the description. There are handcannons in outposts and keeps (not sure about keeps). It gets a nest of bees. Chemistry if free. And these are basically all the advantages.
Meanwhile, France, HRE and Abbasid Dynasty get culverins which are supercool. France, however, can build them only in a Landmark building, but the bombards are better on the other hand.
Now here comes Rus with Streltsy, which are as far as I know just a cheaper, in terms of resources, version of ordinary handcannoneers. Moreover they have a -25 bombard speed reload tech, which sounds quite impressive.
Personally, I play HRE just because of the opportumity to build culverins in every workshop building. Personally I wish there was a trully gunpowder oriented civ. That could be Italy or Spain, for instance.
So what do you think of cannons in AoE4?

[Eric]

rus, they have the best infantry handcannoner and best springald cuz of range

[Bakeneko]

The chinese have grenade infantry and light cavalry with exploding spears, and a reseatch that improves the range of ALL gunpoweder units. The chinese bombard is a beast, it has 900+ hp if built from the landmark, 12 range, and the fastest firing speed.

[dwrfz]

Originally posted by Bakeneko:

The chinese have grenade infantry and light cavalry with exploding spears, and a reseatch that improves the range of ALL gunpoweder units. The chinese bombard is a beast, it has 900+ hp if built from the landmark, 12 range, and the fastest firing speed.

Oh, indeed! Haven't played China much and never noticed those 2 techs in a workshop.
Reload Drills – Reduces the reload time of Bombards by 33%.
Pyrotechnics – Increases the range of gunpowder units by 20%.
This is a gamechanger :)

[Ninephoenix]

As china you can use your official to speed up the clocktower landmark to churn out op cannons even faster

[Grey]

France has their own unique cannon that's the strongest in the game. They also have a landmark for producing "royal" artillery which are even stronger than vanilla artillery.

The Chinese have nest of bee's which is my personal favorite artillery in the game.

Rus have the best hand cannons.

I'm mean you figured it out already.(It's France) ;)

France is fun for it's kaboom imho. I would like to see the Chinese receive buffs, due to how weak they are overall, they need it and it makes sense. If we see the Ottomans then I would like to think they would be gunpowder oriented.

[dwrfz]

Originally posted by Grey:

France has their own unique cannon that's the strongest in the game. They also have a landmark for producing "royal" artillery which are even stronger than vanilla artillery.:bonfire2:

The Chinese have nest of bee's which is my personal favorite artillery in the game.:praisesun:

Rus have the best hand cannons.:ambitious_trait:

I'm mean you figured it out already.(It's France) ;)

France is fun for it's kaboom imho. I would like to see the Chinese receive buffs, due to how weak they are overall, they need it and it makes sense. If we see the Ottomans then I would like to think they would be gunpowder oriented.

France is my favourity civ so far, but the lack of workshop culverins is a shame. They are just so great to snipe out enemy artillery.
Despite China is just not my cup of tea I have to admit the range bonus is nuts. Bombards can fire from a safer distance and at a higher rate.

[Ninephoenix]

Originally posted by Grey:

France is fun for it's kaboom imho. I would like to see the Chinese receive buffs, due to how weak they are overall, they need it and it makes sense. If we see the Ottomans then I would like to think they would be gunpowder oriented.

China weak? China is by far the best defensive civ and the best late game.
They have walls and cannons with twice the hp anyone else has. and their walls regenerate from a keep tech. As well as having nest of bees which are the only artillery that can fire over walls.
Also they have fire lancers which are hilarious.

[«¬Omnicron¬«]

china

[Subtle Butt ( >ω<)っ ♡]

China, Rus streltsy have same statline as any other HC. China ones get more range and HP plus free gunpowder. Of course you get Grenadiers and Nest of bees

[Trevor Reznik]

Originally posted by Bakeneko:

The chinese have grenade infantry and light cavalry with exploding spears, and a reseatch that improves the range of ALL gunpoweder units. The chinese bombard is a beast, it has 900+ hp if built from the landmark, 12 range, and the fastest firing speed.

How does the chinese aging even work? If you want to enter a dynasty that puts you at a massive disadvantage to any other player, with all the resources you just wasted.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Trevor Reznik:

Originally posted by Bakeneko:

The chinese have grenade infantry and light cavalry with exploding spears, and a reseatch that improves the range of ALL gunpoweder units. The chinese bombard is a beast, it has 900+ hp if built from the landmark, 12 range, and the fastest firing speed.

How does the chinese aging even work? If you want to enter a dynasty that puts you at a massive disadvantage to any other player, with all the resources you just wasted.

Song dynasty isn't that expensive. Costs less than a 2nd tc and you'll get some of the resources back on villages being cheaper than houses and the extra tax income from the landmark. I don't think its a massive disadvantage.

Yuan dynasty you just go for after hitting imp. Its 15% speed for all units so its a decent military buff. The 15% speed applies to vills and they have a cheap unique tech for 5% villager gather rate per dynasty so its a bit better than an age 3 eco upgrade. Then it gives granaries which increase their farm eco further. So I think it pays off, its at the very least better than imperial age eco upgrades since its actually cheaper on gold and gives the same % eco bonus on top of everything else. The ability to see enemy villagers is also pretty helpful (or the better siege if you went up with that landmark in age 3 but I think the siege one is a lot better).

Ming dynasty seems worthless to me. I think 15% speed is better than 10% hp, its too expensive, the pagoda is theoretically nice but you have to have relics and the apm to move the relics to pagoda, so the only thing you get out of it is that 5% villager gather rate and the grenadier, and the great wall landmark seems quite useless. The grenadier's are quite good but its not worth a 2400 1200 cost.

So I don't think dynasties are a massive disadvantage. Song I think is quite good and yuan is just a late game thing.

You also get the bombards without any dynasty at all. Obviously you have to pay for the unique techs but they start better than most end up since they get chemistry for free and 50% hp from the age 3 landmark.

[djcarey]

French!!

[Subtle Butt ( >ω<)っ ♡]

Grenadiers are a pretty big win condition. They blow up buildings really well and destroy stacks of anything that isnt cavalry. If you've used grenadiers in AoE 3, you'll know what they do. Only there, they cost 2 pop and here they only cost 1 pop. You also outrange every other gunpowder infantry with Grenadiers at 4.8 range with Chinese unique tech. Only really applicable in a big teamgame 4v4, but if you're going to be spamming gunpowder its the best unit in the game.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Subtle Butt:

Grenadiers are a pretty big win condition. They blow up buildings really well and destroy stacks of anything that isnt cavalry. If you've used grenadiers in AoE 3, you'll know what they do. Only there, they cost 2 pop and here they only cost 1 pop. You also outrange every other gunpowder infantry with Grenadiers at 4.8 range with Chinese unique tech. Only really applicable in a big teamgame 4v4, but if you're going to be spamming gunpowder its the best unit in the game.

Grenadiers in aoe 3 are terrible. I wouldn't want to compare the aoe 4 ones to that because they were super expensive and died quite easily.

I think the ones here are better than aoe 3, but not worth going for. Ming dynasty is super expensive and gives you basically nothing but the grenadier unit. Just get the cheaper nest of bees tech and go for those if you insist that you need aoe. 2400 1200 into literally anything else is a win condition too if those grenadiers won you the game.

[Subtle Butt ( >ω<)っ ♡]

Grenadiers in aoe 3 DE are fine, its a treaty unit type of deal. 2400, 1200 isnt a big investment in the late game for grenadiers especially if you're going to be spamming gunpowder, I'll assume you're in that situation already. Grenadiers compared to nest of bees are cheaper per pop, siege much faster and doesnt die to enemy springalds/culverins as fast as nests.