Kathy Rain 2: Soothsayer

Kathy Rain 2: Soothsayer

 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Pyoro-2 Nov 21, 2024 @ 1:09pm
Demo feedback
Looks nice; feels exactly like the Kathy Rain experience you'd want from a sequel, and the mystery seems immediately interesting (aaah, the wait ... but really nice idea to announce the game with a demo right away).

Obviously this is just a demo and I'm sure WIP, but just three points of feedback really:

1. Inventory could be a bit more easily accessible than having to click that bag at the bottom. Mousewheel to bring it up for example.
2. The questionnaire is a difficult puzzle so early in the game (I assume the demo is literally the start of the game). I do actually want my p&cs to make me think ... but not so much about "what exactly is the correct spelling/developer intended word here". Quickly devolves into "try variations to see which one works" which isn't fun or clever, just kinda annoying.
Playing around I did notice some alternatives are possible already, but I think the feedback you get should be more precise and possible accepted variations more expanded.
Possibly it'd also be nice to have a warning you might want to take notes because, well, it's 2024 and I'm not expecting that just out of blue - but it'd have been helpful here. OR have the ingame notebook actually record pertinent information like what's needed here (having a "profile" you work out for the case makes sense anyway, right?)
3. While the cabin puzzle works it feels kinda hard to intuitively understand whether you are in an acceptable spot or not. It's also a bit of an odd situation after previously explicitly stating that you can't see much through the window ... just dive under a table or something, honestly.

But in any case. Looking forward to the full game, whenever that comes around ;)
< >
Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
Krusbert  [developer] Nov 21, 2024 @ 11:09pm 
Originally posted by Pyoro-2:
Looks nice; feels exactly like the Kathy Rain experience you'd want from a sequel, and the mystery seems immediately interesting (aaah, the wait ... but really nice idea to announce the game with a demo right away).

Obviously this is just a demo and I'm sure WIP, but just three points of feedback really:

1. Inventory could be a bit more easily accessible than having to click that bag at the bottom. Mousewheel to bring it up for example.
2. The questionnaire is a difficult puzzle so early in the game (I assume the demo is literally the start of the game). I do actually want my p&cs to make me think ... but not so much about "what exactly is the correct spelling/developer intended word here". Quickly devolves into "try variations to see which one works" which isn't fun or clever, just kinda annoying.
Playing around I did notice some alternatives are possible already, but I think the feedback you get should be more precise and possible accepted variations more expanded.
Possibly it'd also be nice to have a warning you might want to take notes because, well, it's 2024 and I'm not expecting that just out of blue - but it'd have been helpful here. OR have the ingame notebook actually record pertinent information like what's needed here (having a "profile" you work out for the case makes sense anyway, right?)
3. While the cabin puzzle works it feels kinda hard to intuitively understand whether you are in an acceptable spot or not. It's also a bit of an odd situation after previously explicitly stating that you can't see much through the window ... just dive under a table or something, honestly.

But in any case. Looking forward to the full game, whenever that comes around ;)

Thank you so much for playing!

1. Point taken! Should be easy enough for us to bind a button for that :)

2. The full game doesn't actually start this way — it has a slower start with more exposition, character introductions and research puzzles in the library. We felt that the demo needed to hook the player quicker with a crime scene right off the bat, so things are a bit more fast-paced, while still not going so far into the game as to need a lot of awkward exposition or spoiling too many of the twists and turns in the main story.

So essentially, the demo features a combination of some early parts and the later cabin area which normally doesn't open up until a couple of hours in on the second "day".

As for the quiz, duly noted! We've tried to accept as many combinations as possible for the inputs, but if you have any suggestions that you think should be valid answers, we'd love to know so we can implement them for the next version :)

We've also considered making the puzzle easier by having Randy note down exactly what you got correct, maybe with a green checkmark or red X on each question or something like that.

Lastly, for the next version (in the full game or if we patch the demo later) we have put in an alternate, much simpler solution for the quiz, which will be handy for those who really hate it: Burning up the quiz with the lighter in front of Randy :D

3. Yeah, I was worried about this sequence too! Maybe we should just bite the bullet and allow the player to hide under the table. It's a bit tricky animation wise, but rather that than unnecessary frustration. I wanted the sequence to be tense and dynamic and Kathy having to move around to stay out of view but maybe just having to lock the door and then find one hiding place is more than enough.
Pyoro-2 Nov 22, 2024 @ 8:19am 
2. Good thing I didn't praise the bold in medias res start of the game too much then xD

The quiz ... well, the step-dad thing and tea give feedback on how they weren't specific enough if you at least get close. So that sorta thing is I think already helpful, though I didn't enjoy backtracking for the information (not like it's "far away" but still).
Double-checking I'm fairly sure I had a typo in Mauve Affair but that seems to have been accepted which is nice. I must have had something else wrong and thought this was the problem, but apparently it wasn't.
First question is the one that gave me real trouble. I thought it was making a point about hunting/warrior/quest or something. I eventually gave up, backtracked again ...

Actually, bit of a detour: this is also a bit annoying - maybe you can get her to think about the answers and give a sorta "hmm something doesn't look right" answer (I know it's rationally kinda nonsense but I'd say it's puzzle game convention that protagonists tend to know when they get things right/wrong in those situations) so you don't necessarily have to go back and forth between the cabin/library).

Anyway, I ultimately landed on "tribe" because that's literally in the book descriptions (tribe/tribeswoman anyway). But I got told I had to be more specific, and "Cree" wasn't it - so here I think the hint wasn't useful. Okay, I get Native Americans/Indians as solution, and the game talks about how that's important to her, so in retrospect that is an obvious answer. But you know how it sometimes is ^^;

In any case if it's just a demo thing and the lighter option is implemented it's probably fine. I feared this would be basically the start of the game, in which case I'd expect a lot of people to bounce off right away.

3. Maybe the far right corner could make her a bit "greyed-out"? Like ... she's in shadow. It's a bit game-y, but some palette manipulation of the sprite or overlay or something is maybe not too difficult and would give some visual indication that doesn't require another animation? Or give her a short "I shouldn't be visible here!" line if you are in the right spot.
EddyD Nov 22, 2024 @ 4:56pm 
I agree, the cabin sequence had some issues. Since the first two "correct" things to do are interactions with hotspots, I was expecting the third things to do to be an interaction with a hotspot.

I was furiously clicking on the empty shelves, bookcase, table, and fireplace trying to get Kathy to do something.

Therefore, I think there should be multiple solutions: click on the bookcase, shelves, or table for the final hide.

As for the fanclub quiz, I enjoyed the sleuthing; however, I do admit that—perhaps—another solution should be to submit a wrong quiz three times, and then have him throw up his hands in exasperation and say, "Well, F it!" That would be a nice "out" for the player and developer alike.😅
Last edited by EddyD; Nov 22, 2024 @ 5:05pm
Carighan Nov 23, 2024 @ 12:15am 
So I didn't have an issue with the word-specifics on the application form, I did however struggle a fair bit with the cabin as it made no sense I got noticed in certain spots as I was **clearly** not acutally visible from where I was. I never even thought this was about interacting with hotspots until reading it here, I intuitively thought it'd be about moving around so I'm adjacent to each window, near the wall.

Maybe make it so that for each step there's 1 Hotspot + 1 "area" that is okay if you stand in it?
Cris Nov 23, 2024 @ 4:49am 
I actually nailed the quiz on the first try BUT I feel like I was trained well by KR01 and Whispers so the first thing I did when presented with the newspaper was note everything down in Notepad and take many screenshots just to be safe ^_^ Before anything else I actually googled the drink mentioned in the paper because that stood out to me as a foreshadowing detail :P Definitely gonna be harder for a normie who hasn't played similar games before :D

I was also VERY confused by the Trapped puzzle but in hindsight the solution felt "obvious". As a developer you could tweak that in a hundred ways or add alternative ways to clear the puzzle but my immediate instinctive reaction to discovering the solution was just "DOH of course, git gud".

I FEEL like the inventory didn't close by itself as often in your other games and that might also be part of the issue mentioned above.

11/10 cats.
Lyric Nov 23, 2024 @ 6:20am 
I also found the cabins quick time puzzle to be really far-fetched. The first thing I did was try to hide under the desk and behind the sofa. Hiding between the door and the wall shelves felt counterintuitive. Why could we hide there but not between the bookshelf and the chimney, especially considering the window visibility was so poor?
As for the library puzzle, I found it a bit strange that Debra Sinclairs adoptive parents were supposed to be authors, yet none of their books could be found on the computer. The same goes for the three books mentioned by Randy.

Overall, except for the last puzzle (I hope you will be able to improve the most counterintuitive parts), I enjoyed the demo and am looking forward to the full game.
GKnight Nov 23, 2024 @ 8:50am 
I had my problems with the quiz and used a guide:

Quiz, 2nd question: Nothing's found if "Sebastian Sinclair" is entered into the computer, although the librarian says both parents were authors. The computer says to enter the surname, and honestly, without a guide, I would've never entered "Sebastian" as a last name. But I guess it's an American thing...

Quiz, 3rd question: I tried "Unbound" as it's the only book listed with both Sinclair's and Collins's name in it. Sure I would've brute-forced the right answer eventually (there are only 2 possibilities) - or maybe I missed a clue that Debra wrote some chapters in the "Mauve" book?

Quiz, last question: The name of the tea, yeah. In retrospect it's stupid that I've missed the small caption of a picture on page two of a very lenghty newspaper article. Well, I'm a slow reader, especially with small font sizes. Overall it's an okay puzzle-piece, as she's sitting there with a cup of something in her hand. It's a cup, right? Not a glass?

On the other hand, I had no problem with the "cop/hide" section. The first step was clear after reading "unlocked door" on the door's hotspot, and being familiar with the principle of "line of sight", I just guessed the two hiding places...
I AKU! Nov 23, 2024 @ 1:08pm 
I didn't have that much trouble with the quiz and thought it was a nice puzzle overall though there's some things that may need clarification and tool tips, for one I didn't know you could scroll down on the newspaper until I was futzing around with it. Also I did narrow down the ghostwritten answer but that's mainly because that was the only other author and book given. I think the description of the book that's the answer should allude to a bit more that it was ghostwritten.

Also I agree the last part of the quick time section is really specific, like I was in the far left corner by the cupboard where the ranger shouldn't have been able to see me and he still saw me. Would agree it would just better for the solution to be a hotspot to hide behind another piece of furniture.

Real nice otherwise, looking forward to it.
Last edited by I AKU!; Nov 23, 2024 @ 7:37pm
LtUlman Nov 24, 2024 @ 1:59am 
To add to the quiz thing, I could have done with more feedback on which question I got wrong. There was specifics on "need more detail" on the pen name question, but as that was the only answer I changed and then I got a "You got one wrong" answer, I assumed that the answer I changed it to was so wildly wrong it no longer recognised it as the same thing.
As it turned out I was getting the drink wrong, I went from Iced Tea to Sweet Iced Tea as that was the only type of Iced tea I could think of, forgetting the clue we were given before. If it had said "No, she didn't like drinking that" then I would have known to look again (and yeah, I did get the response of "You'll have to be more specific when I answered Iced tea, but not when I answered Sweet Iced tea, so it might just be that that should be added to the pile of alternative "close but not exact" triggers)

Aside from that, really enjoyed it. Looking forward to more Kathy!
(Oh, and Kathy had the same thought as I did with the camera and Mildred!)
Last edited by LtUlman; Nov 24, 2024 @ 3:08am
Krusbert  [developer] Nov 25, 2024 @ 2:06am 
Originally posted by Pyoro-2:
Actually, bit of a detour: this is also a bit annoying - maybe you can get her to think about the answers and give a sorta "hmm something doesn't look right" answer (I know it's rationally kinda nonsense but I'd say it's puzzle game convention that protagonists tend to know when they get things right/wrong in those situations) so you don't necessarily have to go back and forth between the cabin/library).

Anyway, I ultimately landed on "tribe" because that's literally in the book descriptions (tribe/tribeswoman anyway). But I got told I had to be more specific, and "Cree" wasn't it - so here I think the hint wasn't useful. Okay, I get Native Americans/Indians as solution, and the game talks about how that's important to her, so in retrospect that is an obvious answer. But you know how it sometimes is ^^;

3. Maybe the far right corner could make her a bit "greyed-out"? Like ... she's in shadow. It's a bit game-y, but some palette manipulation of the sprite or overlay or something is maybe not too difficult and would give some visual indication that doesn't require another animation? Or give her a short "I shouldn't be visible here!" line if you are in the right spot.

Hm, good point about the slow detour back to the library. We do have double clicking on exits to teleport but there's still that long walk to the computer. We should technically add fast travel shortcuts to the computer and Randy in the quiz UI or something, maybe two buttons at the top, but it would be a bit game-y and potentially immersion-breaking.

Having Kathy herself determine if the quiz is correct could work (maybe you can click a "confirm" button at the bottom to hear her reactions) but I would prefer to only do that as a last resort.

Regarding visual indicators of Kathy being hidden or not, I think it's better to stick with animations for both the couch and the wall (or whatever second hiding spot we use). Alternatively, maybe we just cut the wall part and go with the couch and locking the door. It doesn't have to be that long of a sequence, just a little tension to break the pace after finding a big clue.

Originally posted by EddyD:
I agree, the cabin sequence had some issues. Since the first two "correct" things to do are interactions with hotspots, I was expecting the third things to do to be an interaction with a hotspot.

I was furiously clicking on the empty shelves, bookcase, table, and fireplace trying to get Kathy to do something. Therefore, I think there should be multiple solutions: click on the bookcase, shelves, or table for the final hide.
Originally posted by Carighan:
I did however struggle a fair bit with the cabin as it made no sense I got noticed in certain spots as I was **clearly** not acutally visible from where I was. I never even thought this was about interacting with hotspots until reading it here, I intuitively thought it'd be about moving around so I'm adjacent to each window, near the wall. Maybe make it so that for each step there's 1 Hotspot + 1 "area" that is okay if you stand in it?
Originally posted by Cris:
I was also VERY confused by the Trapped puzzle but in hindsight the solution felt "obvious". As a developer you could tweak that in a hundred ways or add alternative ways to clear the puzzle but my immediate instinctive reaction to discovering the solution was just "DOH of course, git gud".
Originally posted by Nene:
I also found the cabins quick time puzzle to be really far-fetched. The first thing I did was try to hide under the desk and behind the sofa. Hiding between the door and the wall shelves felt counterintuitive. Why could we hide there but not between the bookshelf and the chimney, especially considering the window visibility was so poor?.
Originally posted by I AKU!:
I agree the last part of the quick time section is really specific, like I was in the far left corner by the cupboard where the ranger shouldn't have been able to see me and he still saw me. Would agree it would just better for the solution to be a hotspot to hide behind another piece of furniture.

We've got consensus. Reading you all loud and clear, we'll definitely find a better way to hide from the ranger!

Originally posted by EddyD:
I do admit that—perhaps—another solution should be to submit a wrong quiz three times, and then have him throw up his hands in exasperation and say, "Well, F it!" That would be a nice "out" for the player and developer alike.😅

This would be easy to implement and probably quite a funny scene (as well as achievement material), but I worry if it's realistic for Randy to trust Kathy with breaking into the cabin if she's doing such a bad job as a "fellow fan". Will think on this!

Originally posted by Cris:
I FEEL like the inventory didn't close by itself as often in your other games and that might also be part of the issue mentioned above.

Can you elaborate on this? When did you feel that the inventory should've closed and it didn't?

Originally posted by Nene:
As for the library puzzle, I found it a bit strange that Debra Sinclairs adoptive parents were supposed to be authors, yet none of their books could be found on the computer. The same goes for the three books mentioned by Randy.
Originally posted by GKnight:
Quiz, 2nd question: Nothing's found if "Sebastian Sinclair" is entered into the computer, although the librarian says both parents were authors. The computer says to enter the surname, and honestly, without a guide, I would've never entered "Sebastian" as a last name. But I guess it's an American thing...

It's intended that the library doesn't have every book (after all, libraries have a curated selection), but you're right, we should add a few by her parents. My main worry with that is that some players may confuse them with Debra's books in the same list, seeing as how they'll search by surname.

Maybe a way around that is if the parents have a hyphenated version, like "Sinclair-Smith" or whatever and Debra shortened it when she became an author.

Originally posted by Nene:
Quiz, 3rd question: I tried "Unbound" as it's the only book listed with both Sinclair's and Collins's name in it. Sure I would've brute-forced the right answer eventually (there are only 2 possibilities) - or maybe I missed a clue that Debra wrote some chapters in the "Mauve" book?
Originally posted by I AKU!:
I did narrow down the ghostwritten answer but that's mainly because that was the only other author and book given. I think the description of the book that's the answer should allude to a bit more that it was ghostwritten.

I'll tweak the Mauve Affair description to make it more clear that multiple authors were involved!

Originally posted by Nene:
Quiz, last question: The name of the tea, yeah. In retrospect it's stupid that I've missed the small caption of a picture on page two of a very lenghty newspaper article. Well, I'm a slow reader, especially with small font sizes. Overall it's an okay puzzle-piece, as she's sitting there with a cup of something in her hand. It's a cup, right? Not a glass?

We'll see what we can do to improve the legibility of that caption!

Originally posted by I AKU!:
I didn't know you could scroll down on the newspaper until I was futzing around with it.

Oh, thanks for reminding me, we do have that task somewhere in the backlog!

Originally posted by LtUlman:
To add to the quiz thing, I could have done with more feedback on which question I got wrong. There was specifics on "need more detail" on the pen name question, but as that was the only answer I changed and then I got a "You got one wrong" answer, I assumed that the answer I changed it to was so wildly wrong it no longer recognised it as the same thing.
As it turned out I was getting the drink wrong, I went from Iced Tea to Sweet Iced Tea as that was the only type of Iced tea I could think of, forgetting the clue we were given before. If it had said "No, she didn't like drinking that" then I would have known to look again (and yeah, I did get the response of "You'll have to be more specific when I answered Iced tea, but not when I answered Sweet Iced tea, so it might just be that that should be added to the pile of alternative "close but not exact" triggers)

We'll make Randy mark out what answers were wrong, that should soften up the puzzle quite a bit! As for the "iced tea" part, duly noted! I'll make sure that Randy recognizes any permutation of "iced tea" and gives a relevant hint.
Last edited by Krusbert; Nov 29, 2024 @ 5:34am
Sabrina_R Nov 26, 2024 @ 1:55am 
I thought the puzzles in the demo were great, personally. Struggled a bit with the last part of the quiz but eventually landed on the clues. Call me old school but I wish there was just a little bit more to getting caught in the cabin so the pace of the reset was less jarring and immersion breaking. Take a beat, have her escorted out. Maybe have her quip, "is this going on my permanent record?" or something.
Last edited by Sabrina_R; Nov 26, 2024 @ 1:55am
Krusbert  [developer] Nov 26, 2024 @ 5:50am 
Originally posted by Sabrina_R:
I thought the puzzles in the demo were great, personally. Struggled a bit with the last part of the quiz but eventually landed on the clues. Call me old school but I wish there was just a little bit more to getting caught in the cabin so the pace of the reset was less jarring and immersion breaking. Take a beat, have her escorted out. Maybe have her quip, "is this going on my permanent record?" or something.

Hm, not the worst idea! Especially the first time. Maybe we speed it up on subsequent failures to not be too long-winded and annoying.
Last edited by Krusbert; Nov 26, 2024 @ 5:50am
Spike Nov 26, 2024 @ 1:12pm 
Played the demo and had a fun time. Really liking the pixel art in this one, it looks great. Thought the quiz was the perfect level of challenge (I think I was only slightly off on one answer), but like many others I couldn't tell what I was doing wrong with the ranger in the cabin. I kept thinking "why can I not hide under the desk??" and idk it just felt awkward to not have a designated hiding spot for the 2nd window he goes to when the first one had one.
Last edited by Spike; Nov 26, 2024 @ 1:13pm
GenericName Nov 26, 2024 @ 9:05pm 
Had fun with the game so far, just want to throw in my two cents though.
First off, really enjoyed the quiz, having to sleuth for it was great. The dubious nature of an answer wasn't great but a spelling error was worse. Please don't remove it though, please just expand what is acceptable bearing in mind spelling errors. You could have the fan comment on your spelling error too, maybe make a joke at your expense and Kathy can tell him off in her own way. Also, could you put up some false flags. The only answer I got tricked on was her drink. Here is a huge fan of the dead author, one question is about her favorite drink. The fan has drinks, wouldn't the fan drink what the author drinks? So maybe throw a few potential answers in that are wrong but you come across first. The library computer, for example, her friend only has two books. One is co-authored, the other isn't, kinda easy to guess which she ghost wrote for. The thing is the synopsis gives away that multiple authors wrote for it, so why not have another book or two listed to force the player to at least read the synopsis.
Next hiding from the cop scene. At the start Kathy could comment the door is unlocked or maybe some visual cue like a flash on the door knob. I accidentally skipped the dialog between the cop and fan so not sure if it was mentioned there. The sofa, I believe the problem here is the lack of a dual choice. You click something and get one option, most games like this have two, look and interact. Typically when you use something you don't get a different result in the same scene but if you could only look before and interacting was blocked, like "I'm not getting near a blood stained sofa" then you might try interacting again. As for the third part please make it another interaction, like you interact with the empty shelves by pressing yourself against the wall. The whole scene should be foreshadowed earlier though, think tutorial, to help prepare for it. So for example you have to hide from your cat to snag something its hording. Also please rearrange the cabin, either change where you hide or alter its physical layout. Like make the windows bigger to make it more obvious the cop can see you or at least have Kathy comment if she looks though the window she can see everything. The desk needs debris below it, my first thought was to go under it which i couldn't do. Make the chair broken with a note officer Barry broke it, or put boxes of books under it blocking you from fitting. Furthermore please foreshadow things, Kathy is here to find a killer she should be looking for places a killer could have hid to get the drop on the author. Commenting on potential hiding places makes sense this way and helps prepare the player without spoiling the scene, assuming it wasn't done this way in an earlier scene.
MidNight Tension Nov 26, 2024 @ 11:35pm 
Spent 2 hours thinking there was a bug involving the solutions when I finally gave up and read through the walk-through involving the pen name of the author. Spent another 10 min. if you had to space before the first name, double space before the last name, before i conceded claiming my game was bugged. with referenced multiple times I had one wrong answer till I found out the drinks' first letter was the problem and not the name. If you can clarify which answer was wrong into the final release please.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
Per page: 1530 50