Could someone please explain what "dark" means in this game's context?

[Mister Magician]

The game's own marketing and many of the reviews boast of how "dark" the game is. Equally meaningless terms like "gritty" and "grey" are also thrown around interchangeably.

Could someone tell me what this even means, and give examples (use spoiler tags if giving specific details)?

Do the people who use this term even know?

[Jabob]

Thematically, this game reminds me of Souls games. Rotten, decaying world, Good guys and bad guys all suck in their own ways, and the game generally seems to pose a rather dim view of humanity. Nothing particularly edgy, just subversion of fantasy hero tropes and the like.

[Mister Magician]

Originally posted by Jabob:

Thematically, this game reminds me of Souls games. Rotten, decaying world, Good guys and bad guys all suck in their own ways, and the game generally seems to pose a rather dim view of humanity. Nothing particularly edgy, just subversion of fantasy hero tropes and the like.

That's not a "subversion," that's the standard for rpgs for a solid 50 years. "very specific kind of people" trying their literally damnedest to ruin what Good The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia did.

The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia ARE the "subversion."

Also I didn't know this started out as a board game, I just looked up the story for that and there's nothing there.

[Jabob]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by Jabob:

Thematically, this game reminds me of Souls games. Rotten, decaying world, Good guys and bad guys all suck in their own ways, and the game generally seems to pose a rather dim view of humanity. Nothing particularly edgy, just subversion of fantasy hero tropes and the like.

That's not a "subversion," that's the standard for rpgs for a solid 50 years. "very specific kind of people" trying their literally damnedest to ruin what Good The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia did.

The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia ARE the "subversion."

Also I didn't know this started out as a board game, I just looked up the story for that and there's nothing there.

Lol, okay. Play the demo. The end of the prologue subverts the expectations set by the prologue. I'm not speaking in vagaries but of actual events.

[Mister Magician]

Originally posted by Jabob:

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

That's not a "subversion," that's the standard for rpgs for a solid 50 years. "very specific kind of people" trying their literally damnedest to ruin what Good The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia did.

The Lord Of The Rings and The Chronicles Of Narnia ARE the "subversion."

Also I didn't know this started out as a board game, I just looked up the story for that and there's nothing there.

Lol, okay. Play the demo. The end of the prologue subverts the expectations set by the prologue. I'm not speaking in vagaries but of actual events.

Unless it's "subverting the expectation that this is perverse, nihilistic slop like every other rpg" then it isn't "subverting" anything. you can't keep pulling the EXACT same trick for 1000 years under different names and faces and expect people to not notice.

[TheLuckyAce]

I dont get the point of this thread...

You ask what's the "dark" theme of this, get an answer and start rambling about "but this is nothing new"...

Well... an RPG in a Dark Fantasy World IS nothing new... who could have guessed. But it's good... who cares if its something complete new we never seen before?
It is hard to come up with something "we" as millions and billions of humans never have seen before...

[Jabob]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by Jabob:

Lol, okay. Play the demo. The end of the prologue subverts the expectations set by the prologue. I'm not speaking in vagaries but of actual events.

Unless it's "subverting the expectation that this is perverse, nihilistic slop like every other rpg" then it isn't "subverting" anything. you can't keep pulling the EXACT same trick for 1000 years under different names and faces and expect people to not notice.

It's dark fantasy, not high fantasy. Life is tough, people struggle, and threats are encroaching. That's the trope. if you hate that trope, then perhaps it's not for you. Personally, I've enjoyed the story showing the past, the logic behind the atrocities that made the world what it is, and the impossible choices that were made. If that sounds like a slog to you, then it's not for you.

[Mister Magician]

Originally posted by TheLuckyAce:

I dont get the point of this thread...

You ask what's the "dark" theme of this, get an answer and start rambling about "but this is nothing new"...

Well... an RPG in a Dark Fantasy World IS nothing new... who could have guessed. But it's good... who cares if its something complete new we never seen before?
It is hard to come up with something "we" as millions and billions of humans never have seen before...

I'm asking for a definition of the term. Shouldn't be too hard.

"subverts expectations" CANNOT be the way that "dark" is defined because nothing is being subverted, especially not expectations. I can't tell you a single rpg that isn't trying to fling modern nihilism and perversion into a Middle Ages setting. I fully expect that.

A game where Good is Good and evil is evil WOULD "subvert expectations" but I can't imagine it would be "dark" without digging deep into pre-modern storytelling quality.

Therefore it has to mean something else than that.

drab colors?

blood everywhere?

everything is ugly?

everyone scowling like a 1990's comic book store clerk trying to look "deep?"

art style between "my dad doesn't speak to me" tattoo art and metal album covers?

[Jabob]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by TheLuckyAce:

I dont get the point of this thread...

You ask what's the "dark" theme of this, get an answer and start rambling about "but this is nothing new"...

Well... an RPG in a Dark Fantasy World IS nothing new... who could have guessed. But it's good... who cares if its something complete new we never seen before?
It is hard to come up with something "we" as millions and billions of humans never have seen before...

I'm asking for a definition of the term. Shouldn't be too hard.

"subverts expectations" CANNOT be the way that "dark" is defined because nothing is being subverted, especially not expectations. I can't tell you a single rpg that isn't trying to fling modern nihilism and perversion into a Middle Ages setting.

A game where Good is Good and evil is evil WOULD "subvert expectations" but I can't imagine it would be "dark" without digging deep into pre-modern storytelling quality.

Therefore it has to mean something else than that.

drab colors?

blood everywhere?

everyone scowling like a 1990's metalhead trying to look "deep?"

It means that the world is rotting, danger is coming, and there is no righteous salvation. Instead, there are ugly choices with consequences. That's the theme.

[Mister Magician]

Originally posted by Jabob:

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

I'm asking for a definition of the term. Shouldn't be too hard.

"subverts expectations" CANNOT be the way that "dark" is defined because nothing is being subverted, especially not expectations. I can't tell you a single rpg that isn't trying to fling modern nihilism and perversion into a Middle Ages setting.

A game where Good is Good and evil is evil WOULD "subvert expectations" but I can't imagine it would be "dark" without digging deep into pre-modern storytelling quality.

Therefore it has to mean something else than that.

drab colors?

blood everywhere?

everyone scowling like a 1990's metalhead trying to look "deep?"

It means that the world is rotting, danger is coming, and there is no righteous salvation. Instead, there are ugly choices with consequences. That's the theme.

Lol. Maybe you'll grow up one day.

[TheLuckyAce]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by TheLuckyAce:

I dont get the point of this thread...

You ask what's the "dark" theme of this, get an answer and start rambling about "but this is nothing new"...

Well... an RPG in a Dark Fantasy World IS nothing new... who could have guessed. But it's good... who cares if its something complete new we never seen before?
It is hard to come up with something "we" as millions and billions of humans never have seen before...

I'm asking for a definition of the term. Shouldn't be too hard.

"subverts expectations" CANNOT be the way that "dark" is defined because nothing is being subverted, especially not expectations. I can't tell you a single rpg that isn't trying to fling modern nihilism and perversion into a Middle Ages setting.

A game where Good is Good and evil is evil WOULD "subvert expectations" but I can't imagine it would be "dark" without digging deep into pre-modern storytelling quality.

Therefore it has to mean something else than that.

drab colors?

blood everywhere?

everyone scowling like a 1990's metalhead trying to look "deep?"

If you want a definition - google it? There are lots of sources for definitions, Steam Forums might not be the best place for it.

Above are several posts about looks at THIS game and what the Dev's could have mean with the term. What else do you need?

Send the PR Team of the Publisher/Dev's a Mail and ask them for their Definition... we cannot answer what THEY meant with "Dark" and every definition you will get here is most likely not what the Dev's mean... pointless still.

[Jabob]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by Jabob:

It means that the world is rotting, danger is coming, and there is no righteous salvation. Instead, there are ugly choices with consequences. That's the theme.

Lol. Maybe you'll grow up one day.

From a guy who pretends his silly question hasn't been answered since he wants a fight lol

[bruh]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by Jabob:

Lol, okay. Play the demo. The end of the prologue subverts the expectations set by the prologue. I'm not speaking in vagaries but of actual events.

Unless it's "subverting the expectation that this is perverse, nihilistic slop like every other rpg" then it isn't "subverting" anything. you can't keep pulling the EXACT same trick for 1000 years under different names and faces and expect people to not notice.

just play the demo and see for yourself, why you asking us? if you not even gonna bother doing that then you never were interested in this game anyway

[Mister Magician]

Originally posted by TheLuckyAce:

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

I'm asking for a definition of the term. Shouldn't be too hard.

"subverts expectations" CANNOT be the way that "dark" is defined because nothing is being subverted, especially not expectations. I can't tell you a single rpg that isn't trying to fling modern nihilism and perversion into a Middle Ages setting.

A game where Good is Good and evil is evil WOULD "subvert expectations" but I can't imagine it would be "dark" without digging deep into pre-modern storytelling quality.

Therefore it has to mean something else than that.

drab colors?

blood everywhere?

everyone scowling like a 1990's metalhead trying to look "deep?"

If you want a definition - google it? There are lots of sources for definitions, Steam Forums might not be the best place for it.

Above are several posts about looks at THIS game and what the Dev's could have mean with the term. What else do you need?

Send the PR Team of the Publisher/Dev's a Mail and ask them for their Definition... we cannot answer what THEY meant with "Dark" and every definition you will get here is most likely not what the Dev's mean... pointless still.

I liked the other guy's definition, at least he tried. Made me laugh though.

This reminds me of a few years ago when cormac mccarthy released his "most nihilistic novel yet" about nuclear bombs on his 90th birthday.

The very first public review of the book honestly asked why cormac is still alive if he hates living so much.

cormac then died a few months later, I guess he took the hint.

Who said God isn't a Comedian?

[Noma]

Originally posted by Mister Magician:

Originally posted by Jabob:

It means that the world is rotting, danger is coming, and there is no righteous salvation. Instead, there are ugly choices with consequences. That's the theme.

Lol. Maybe you'll grow up one day.

He already explained it in simple terms, it's dark fantasy - everyone has flaws and self interest and there're no happy endings,
It seems you want high fantasy - Paladins good and uncorruptible, witches bad and irredeemable, good triumphs over evil, easily discernible moral dichotomies.

[Gautsu]

I think he just wants to argue semantics and his own personal definitions