more like "Tainted Grail: the save wipe of Avalon"

[Raykael]

I honestly had enough. They said there were going to be no more save wipes ahead, last year. THEN it was changed to "oopsie, we are going to wipe all saves again in March, sooorryyyy, but THAT'S GONNA BE THE LAST SAVE WIPE". Now it's "oh noes, WE ARE GOING TO SAVE WIPE AGAIN AT LAUNCH".

This is ridiculous and unprofessional.

I'd like to know from the developers if they intend to allow refunds past the 2 hours mark of playtime in Steam, in order to make up for what has been clearly deceptive and misleading information on their end.

[OlMaltelO]

Its not exactly the best move, indeed, but seems like it just turned out this way.
However, the very first thing on the shop page clearly reads

Important Information to Consider Before Purchasing This Game in Early Access:

* Your saved data may become corrupted or wiped with large patches and version changes.

.and depending on what you mean by "last year"... in december 24, they said they plan to drop 0.9 in late march and it will be the last save wipe. now, two months later, yet still before 0.9 was even released, they had to walk that promise back.
But Im not aware of them saying 0.7 was supposed to be the last savegame wipe going forward. As far as I know, theyve always said 1.0 WILL WIPE. it was only in december where they said it wouldnt.. so there was a 2 month window where people were thinking that the upcoming update, that was 3+ months away would be the final wipe and that the price would change with that update (3+months later).

Of course thats unfortunate - I agree, they shouldnt have set a date for "last save wipe", if they couldnt commit to it, but its hardly malicous or deceptive.

[Sgt.JESUS]

I dont understand this anger to a single player game wipe, really, whats the point? Its not a MMO or a game like PoE2 where loot and grinding are a part of the game, its an RPG, without coop, nothing, just you, you rather play a buggy mess than a complete game just for the sake of saving some loot or progress?

Devs have a lot of things to do, i think they are concentrating now on expanding the game, adding new areas and enemies, but its still a mess, i came back after a few months and the early game quests are still bugged, the refugees quest can still bug out and get you stuck, but they added a lot of things in the first area too, fixed the cave from the andraste quest, that crap was so bugged last time i played the walls were invisible.

Its not okay but if its required let them wipe, we will have a better game in the end.

[hugocarvalho90]

man, people got so used to early access they forget the mean of it, this is alpha, beta development that you help paying and testing before the real game, the thing is you pass trought alpha, beta phases, you accepted when paid for... save wipe is common since the game will change stuff, can be 3d models, codes, levels, etc... any of those will change the game code, so will break a save or any other thing, stop complaining for something you cant...... I supported some games in early access, and some changed a looot - baldurs gate I played very alpha phase, the game changed a lot, wolcen became a entire new game, hades the same. if you dont like wait the game release or dont complain for an game being developed to wipe because its developing.

[spectre199]

It clearly says in the Early Alpha description that saves may be corrupted or wiped with each update.

[Raykael]

I think you people are missing a point here, and quite an important one:

while it is true that Early Access comes with a generic disclaimer mentioning save wipes, the developers EXPLICITLY WROTE to inform the community (and potential buyers) that no more save wipes would have happened.

After that, they communicated two more save wipes. And one time they even joked about it saying "we lied".

Now, why do save wipes matter to me? Because the game is not good enough to wanting to go through the first part three times, simply put. The first few hours are boring and dull, and the idea of having to replay them is really depressing. I have already done my chores, and I was promised I would be done with them.

When did it become so widely accepted for a developer to blatantly lie about the product they are selling, and when did communities become so accustomed to being lied to that they don't even notice anymore?

If they would really be in good faith, they would allow refunds at this point. They promised something that they could not maintain. Some people (me, but I don't think I'm the only one) bought the game under those premises and now find themselves royally screwed. This is false advertisement to say the least, and potentially even fraudulent behaviour.

So, my question FOR THE DEVELOPERS still stands: do they intend to allow refunds past the 2 hours mark for people who bought the game when they promised no more save wipes, yes or no?

Not that comment from other people are not welcome, but I'd like an answer from them on this subject.

And I bet that they are not going to give any answer.

[OlMaltelO]

The part where they said „sorry we lied“ was about when they said 0.7 would be the last public version before 1.0 with the 1.0 savewipe. They changed their mind about that and that „lie“ was that there wouldnt be another content update before 1.0

I would agree with you if they had said that their past savewipe was the last, but then down the line pulled that back. Here they walked that statement back BEFORE the supposedly „last wipe“ even happened. You havent „wasted“ any more time then you would have anyway. Only difference is that you might need to wait 2-3 months longer to actually start playing - which for some people also might be much of a downer, buts its not no where near fraudulent, in my opinion.

And again - im unaware of them, ever, at any point before this mentioning they wouldnt have to wipe savegames anymore. 1.0 always was supposed to be a savewipe, it was only with the 0.9 announcement they said it wouldnt.

[TheLuckyAce]

It's early access... things can happen. Its not like you are FORCED to play EA Games.

In development it can happen that a planned thing does not work out... sad but true.

[Raykael]

Originally posted by OlMaltelO:

I would agree with you if they had said that their past savewipe was the last, but then down the line pulled that back. Here they walked that statement back BEFORE the supposedly „last wipe“ even happened. You havent „wasted“ any more time then you would have anyway. Only difference is that you might need to wait 2-3 months longer to actually start playing - which for some people also might be much of a downer, buts its not no where near fraudulent, in my opinion.

And again - im unaware of them, ever, at any point before this mentioning they wouldnt have to wipe savegames anymore. 1.0 always was supposed to be a savewipe, it was only with the 0.9 announcement they said it wouldnt.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or just talking about stuff you haven't even taken the time to read, because ON THE OFFICIAL UPDATES REDACTED BY THE DEVS THEY WROTE:

On December 17::

One note: this patch will wipe your saves—BUT this will be the last time that happens! From Patch 0.9 onward, your saves should be safe and sound for the final release.

On February 24:

Remember, when in the last update we said, that after patch 0.9 there would be no more save wipes…? Yeah…. so that turned out not to be true, unfortunately.

So, in December they promised no more save wipes (even clarified that saves would be safe for the final release, MEANING THAT PEOPLE WERE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO CARRY OVER SAVES OUT OF EARLY ACCESS). Does this make you aware now of them promising no more save wipes?

Please go read their updates, it's all written there.

[Raykael]

Originally posted by TheLuckyAce:

It's early access... things can happen. Its not like you are FORCED to play EA Games.

In development it can happen that a planned thing does not work out... sad but true.

And that would be cool and true if they had not promised something that they did not end up keeping.

Not once, not twice, but three times.

I'm paying for this Early Access, and Early Access does not mean scam your players.

[OlMaltelO]

Originally posted by Raykael:

Originally posted by OlMaltelO:

I would agree with you if they had said that their past savewipe was the last, but then down the line pulled that back. Here they walked that statement back BEFORE the supposedly „last wipe“ even happened. You havent „wasted“ any more time then you would have anyway. Only difference is that you might need to wait 2-3 months longer to actually start playing - which for some people also might be much of a downer, buts its not no where near fraudulent, in my opinion.

And again - im unaware of them, ever, at any point before this mentioning they wouldnt have to wipe savegames anymore. 1.0 always was supposed to be a savewipe, it was only with the 0.9 announcement they said it wouldnt.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or just talking about stuff you haven't even taken the time to read, because ON THE OFFICIAL UPDATES REDACTED BY THE DEVS THEY WROTE:

On December 17::

One note: this patch will wipe your saves—BUT this will be the last time that happens! From Patch 0.9 onward, your saves should be safe and sound for the final release.

On February 24:

Remember, when in the last update we said, that after patch 0.9 there would be no more save wipes…? Yeah…. so that turned out not to be true, unfortunately.

So, in December they promised no more save wipes (even clarified that saves would be safe for the final release, MEANING THAT PEOPLE WERE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO CARRY OVER SAVES OUT OF EARLY ACCESS). Then they announced 0.9 as the last save wipe, just to go back on it in February and confirm that there will be another save wipe after 0.9

Please go read their updates, it's all written there.

Yes, thats exactly what I wrote in my first message:

Originally posted by OlMaltelO:

in december 24, they said they plan to drop 0.9 in late march and it will be the last save wipe. now, two months later, yet still before 0.9 was even released, they had to walk that promise back.

if you are referring to the "Im unaware" part of my last message, that was because you said they promised "no more savewipes" TWICE. Could totally be on me that I just dont remember correctly, but Im pretty sure that the December 24 update was the first time they promised such thing.

[Sgt.JESUS]

If they said already they were gonna wipe everything when the game releases it doesnt matter how many times before that they wipe the saves, so just dont play the game until then, put it in the shelf and go play something else.

[Raykael]

at this point I'm certain you people are trolling, so I guess I will try one last time to explain it in the plainest and simplest way possible, then move on:

They said on December 17 that 0.9 would be the last save wipe, meaning that saves past 0.9 would be perfectly fine in 1.0 and onward. This is not a speculation, this is the devs stating on a public update that the saves made from 0.9 onward were going to be stable and final. In the same post they are actively inviting people to buy the game because on 0.9 they plan to increase sales price.

If you check you can actually see the spike in sales in that period of time.

After that, they announced save wipes again.

If they cannot guarantee saves stability, they can just STOP MENTIONING IT, and everyone is fine with the standard EA disclaimer - meaning I would have never bought the game.

But no, they went public announcing a feature that convinced me and many others to buy the game, only to walk back on it once the sales target was hit.

This is fraudulent behaviour, plain and simple.

And again, please note that the devs are not even having the decency to address this when asked by many (not just by me) why don't they take responsability for their "mistake" (proving that it's really just a mistake) and allow refunds for a certain amount of time outside the 2 hours / 14 days. Because they clearly took at least the 14 days refund policy into account when they went back on their word, that's a fact, the announcement was made a couple of weeks after the sales went down again.

[Sgt.JESUS]

You are right, they did say they wouldnt wipe but now they have too, but you are making this into a big thing and its not, i already said on the other thread what the big things are, at least on my book, MTX, Denuvo malware, delaying the game for years without giving us a reason, those are big things to be pissed off about, this is not.

You said it yourself they made a mistake, not everything is predictable in game development, not everything goes according to plan, so just forgive and forget, im sure the game will be great and releasing in a few months, i hope.

[Raykael]

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

You are right, they did say they wouldnt wipe but now they have too, but you are making this into a big thing and its not, i already said on the other thread what the big things are, at least on my book, MTX, Denuvo malware, delaying the game for years without giving us a reason, those are big things to be pissed off about, this is not.

You said it yourself they made a mistake, not everything is predictable in game development, not everything goes according to plan, so just forgive and forget, im sure the game will be great and releasing in a few months, i hope.

I completely disagree. I respect the fact that for you the save wipe thing is not a big deal, and I wish you would respect that for me it is.

Also, since they took the liberty of reassuring potential buyers into one of their updates about this specific aspect of the game, and since some players (not just myself) have been convinced to buy the game under the premise that they would be allowed to maintain the saves and not be forced into replaying the most boring part of the game over and over again, I think it would be fair to expect them to offer a window of time for refunds. That would show that they were in good faith, at least.

Given the fact that they do not offer that, considering also the very peculiar timing that they showed and the way everything perfectly aligned with sales spikes to guarantee that nobody would be able to obtain a refund, I'm still convinced that they just needed to raise some quick money and decided to lie to their playerbase, promising something that they already knew they would not keep.

And for me this is a major red flag and a very big deal.

By the way, not a single word on this from any developer at any point yet.

[Bandy]

Originally posted by Raykael:

more like "Tainted Grail: the save wipe of Avalon"
I honestly had enough. [whinge whinge whinge...]

You best read what it means to buy an early access game next time. You're just embarrassing yourself and in for a f'n butt load of pain posting that ♥♥♥♥♥.