Save Wipe 0.9 Mess about and a mislead purchase of your game. Not cool

[SlyCoop]

I had my eye on this a while. I didn't want to play it in its earlier stages.

When I saw a announcement for the 0.9 and the save wipe not happening, the game was on sale 20% off and devs made it clear the games price will go up at 1.0 so buy now at 20% off to get it cheap.

This lead me to buy the game with the hopes of at least going through the first act sometime in march, which is when 0.9 would be in effect knowingly knowing a wipe wasn't going to happen.

Now I read theres going to be save wipe through to 1.0 and I have to wait till the middle of the year before I can touch the product I was mislead with purchasing for the intent to play March.

Give me one good reason why I should not just refund this game right now. An apology doesn't really cut it when you hoodwinked me into buying your game.

Now I probably cant get a refund even though I do not have 2 hours played because the steam policy doesn't cover anything beyond I think 2 weeks after purchase.

Real scummy move....

[Splashbang]

İlk olarak Raykael tarafından gönderildi:

1) I understand that logic and grammar might be complicated for you, so let me clarify this:

when something is not singular, you use plural. Is it one year? No. Then it's "years", plural, being them 2, 10 or 100. That's how language works I'm afraid.

2) thank you for insulting me. I'm very happy that SOME people don't have a problem with this, and I respect their opinion. I wish you would use me the same courtesy, and I wish you would find the time to come to the realisation that the fact you like or dislike something does not imply that everyone should like or dislike the same thing. You are happy to not care when a promised feature is not delivered, I am not. End of story.

It's important to notice that file corruption here is nonsense: the problem is not that they do not want to have file corruption, the problem is that they do not want to invest in delivering what they promised because they are focusing on console ports, which is not a problem that should fall on paying PC customers and not a valid explaination.

To make it easy for you: they are not saying "we can't do it", they are saying "we don't want to do it as we want to work on releasing on other platforms", which is something that does absolutely nothing to or for PC users.

If it's not my problem it should not be my loss.

3) Thank you for admitting that it's not just my problem

4) Again, no: this is not how language works. A scam is a deceptive practice where something is promised and not delivered, and the person or entity that perpetrates it ends up gaining from the practice to the expense of the person or entity that is targeted.

This is exactly what happened here, to the letter: they promised a feature that (by your own admission before) they knew some users were waiting for in order to buy the game. They did it at the end of fiscal year, when companies usually verify things like their sales/revenue targets, they offered a discount on the same period of time and they announced an increase in price in the future. They know this would convince users like myself to buy into Early Access. They then waited that the refund policy of Steam was null before announcing that they were not willing anymore to develop the features they promised.

This is a scam by definition.

No this is not a scam. Again, you do not know the definition of a scam, nor do you understand how game development work.

You attack my perfect grammar with your crude writing that looks like someone who've flunked their English classes.

A scam is when someone is tricked into parting with their money, and you have not been tricked into parting with your money, by anyone.

Did they overpromise on the save files? Perhaps, but the save files most likely have to be wiped until they come up with a working solution, but that probably won't happen until post launch, since the launch build and the early access builds are completely different builds altogether and most likely not compatible with each other.

As for the price increase: This Is Normal Practice. Nothing about it is a scam. Every Single Developer Does It. Let that sink in. Every single developer make an announcement about a price increase for when the game is launched out of early access, when the official launch draws closer and the time at which they do that is completely random.

As for the discount: That is NOT in their hands. Valve controls the discount for ALL the games on Steam.

[Splashbang]

İlk olarak Raykael tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Scumdrop tarafından gönderildi:

*Hands OP a box of tissues* ...another crybaby that doesn't understand what EA means....it's still in development, that means it isn't finished yet, it means that, even though you've invested some money, you've (as I and many others) essentially helped invested into the development of the as of yet 'unfinished' product, so when the developers make something they have every right to tweak/wipe/edit etc their product as they see fit until they finish and in turn release the FULL GAME 1.0 of which you get as a reward for investing in their Early Access Development...

Again: I know what EA means, but the developer PROMISED IN AN OFFICIAL UPDATE THAT 0.9 WAS THE LAST SAVE WIPE.

Had they just shut up about it, the EA disclaimer would have kept me away from buying the EA, as I usually do. But in a developer's update WHICH IS STILL AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO READ HERE ON STEAM (December) they explicitly promised this.

Why do people think that EA is a get free out of jail card for developers that allow them to do whatever they want and get away with it? It's not. If a developer announces a feature in an update, it's not normal that they later decide not to implement it. And not because they can't, but because they are focusing on console ports and don't want to anymore.

EA or not EA, this is a deceptive practice that should not be allowed or condoned.

Being able to keep your save files from build to build is not a feature, it's them wanting to do something nice for their community. As i mentioned before, though, game development doesn't always go as planned. Things happen and to make sure our game files aren't corrupted, they need to wipe the save files to avoid game breaking issues.

What in the heck is so hard to understand about that, eh?

[Raykael]

İlk olarak Splashbang tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Raykael tarafından gönderildi:

1) I understand that logic and grammar might be complicated for you, so let me clarify this:

when something is not singular, you use plural. Is it one year? No. Then it's "years", plural, being them 2, 10 or 100. That's how language works I'm afraid.

2) thank you for insulting me. I'm very happy that SOME people don't have a problem with this, and I respect their opinion. I wish you would use me the same courtesy, and I wish you would find the time to come to the realisation that the fact you like or dislike something does not imply that everyone should like or dislike the same thing. You are happy to not care when a promised feature is not delivered, I am not. End of story.

It's important to notice that file corruption here is nonsense: the problem is not that they do not want to have file corruption, the problem is that they do not want to invest in delivering what they promised because they are focusing on console ports, which is not a problem that should fall on paying PC customers and not a valid explaination.

To make it easy for you: they are not saying "we can't do it", they are saying "we don't want to do it as we want to work on releasing on other platforms", which is something that does absolutely nothing to or for PC users.

If it's not my problem it should not be my loss.

3) Thank you for admitting that it's not just my problem

4) Again, no: this is not how language works. A scam is a deceptive practice where something is promised and not delivered, and the person or entity that perpetrates it ends up gaining from the practice to the expense of the person or entity that is targeted.

This is exactly what happened here, to the letter: they promised a feature that (by your own admission before) they knew some users were waiting for in order to buy the game. They did it at the end of fiscal year, when companies usually verify things like their sales/revenue targets, they offered a discount on the same period of time and they announced an increase in price in the future. They know this would convince users like myself to buy into Early Access. They then waited that the refund policy of Steam was null before announcing that they were not willing anymore to develop the features they promised.

This is a scam by definition.

No this is not a scam. Again, you do not know the definition of a scam, nor do you understand how game development work.

You attack my perfect grammar with your crude writing that looks like someone who've flunked their English classes.

A scam is when someone is tricked into parting with their money, and you have not been tricked into parting with your money, by anyone.

Did they overpromise on the save files? Perhaps, but the save files most likely have to be wiped until they come up with a working solution, but that probably won't happen until post launch, since the launch build and the early access builds are completely different builds altogether and most likely not compatible with each other.

As for the price increase: This Is Normal Practice. Nothing about it is a scam. Every Single Developer Does It. Let that sink in. Every single developer make an announcement about a price increase for when the game is launched out of early access, when the official launch draws closer and the time at which they do that is completely random.

As for the discount: That is NOT in their hands. Valve controls the discount for ALL the games on Steam.

No kid, I have been tricked into buying the EA version. That's where you are wrong.

Again: they went public in december promising a feature THEY KNEW a lot of potential buyers were waiting for. The reason why 0.8 was given in closed beta is because A LOT OF PEOPLE complained about save wipes happening too often, and they gave therefore the chance to people to keep playing their save in 0.7 or play 0.8 with a new save. THEY KNEW THAT SAVE STABILITY WAS HIGHLY REQUESTED.

On the same post in December they promise save stability from 0.9 onward, they announce a price increase in 0.9 and they start 4 weeks of sale.

After people took the bait, they waited another month to be sure that nobody could refund on steam, and then announced that there would be more save wipes. And they justified this by saying that they wanted to focus on console ports.

After promising a feature that potential players were waiting for and waiting for steam refund policy to expire, they refuse to implement the feature they promised to their PAYING CUSTOMERS because they want to focus on consoles development.

This is a scam, plain and simple. If you can't see it, I would love to offer you a magic bean that will set you for life economically for a very reasonable price.

[Raykael]

İlk olarak Splashbang tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Raykael tarafından gönderildi:

Again: I know what EA means, but the developer PROMISED IN AN OFFICIAL UPDATE THAT 0.9 WAS THE LAST SAVE WIPE.

Had they just shut up about it, the EA disclaimer would have kept me away from buying the EA, as I usually do. But in a developer's update WHICH IS STILL AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO READ HERE ON STEAM (December) they explicitly promised this.

Why do people think that EA is a get free out of jail card for developers that allow them to do whatever they want and get away with it? It's not. If a developer announces a feature in an update, it's not normal that they later decide not to implement it. And not because they can't, but because they are focusing on console ports and don't want to anymore.

EA or not EA, this is a deceptive practice that should not be allowed or condoned.

Being able to keep your save files from build to build is not a feature, it's them wanting to do something nice for their community. As i mentioned before, though, game development doesn't always go as planned. Things happen and to make sure our game files aren't corrupted, they need to wipe the save files to avoid game breaking issues.

What in the heck is so hard to understand about that, eh?

It's a feature and it's a feature that the community has been complaining about and asking on MULTIPLE FORUMS for a LONG TIME.

[spectre199]

This is not a scam and you do not even know what scam is. You also do not even know how game development works.

[Sgt.JESUS]

Its hopeless, people have no patience anymore, why buy EA if you think game development is without any bumps in the road?

Just cut the devs some slack will you, forgive and forget, like i said before, its not a big deal to wipe, recently Mandragora put Denuvo malware a month before release, now thats a big deal imo, wiping is just normal EA stuff.

[Splashbang]

İlk olarak Raykael tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Splashbang tarafından gönderildi:

Being able to keep your save files from build to build is not a feature, it's them wanting to do something nice for their community. As i mentioned before, though, game development doesn't always go as planned. Things happen and to make sure our game files aren't corrupted, they need to wipe the save files to avoid game breaking issues.

What in the heck is so hard to understand about that, eh?

It's a feature and it's a feature that the community has been complaining about and asking on MULTIPLE FORUMS for a LONG TIME.

No, being able to carry over a save file from version to version is not a feature, it's a simple nice gesture from the developers. They are under no obligation to do it whatsoever.

People have been complaining because they lose their progress, which is ridiculous to say the least. Complaining about losing progress in a game currently in early access is pathetic, period.

[Raykael]

İlk olarak spectre199 tarafından gönderildi:

This is not a scam and you do not even know what scam is. You also do not even know how game development works.

Sure, selling something with a promise to deliver a feature to just go back to it and not deliver the promised feature because you're not willing to work on it anymore it's not a scam, and game development works preying on early access users to meet target sales and revenue while planning to focus on other platforms.

What can I say kid, you got it all figured out.

İlk olarak Sgt.JESUS tarafından gönderildi:

Its hopeless, people have no patience anymore, why buy EA if you think game development is without any bumps in the road?

Just cut the devs some slack will you, forgive and forget, like i said before, its not a big deal to wipe, recently Mandragora put Denuvo malware a month before release, now thats a big deal imo, wiping is just normal EA stuff.

I already made it clear that I do not buy Early Access for this exact reason: I do not want to play over and over the same section of the game. I bought when they promised that there would not be save resets anymore, because they promised it in their official update.

Let me ask you, instead: why should I give a pass to people that are blatantly caught in a lie and are financing console development with the money they got from me thanks to a feature they are not willing anymore to develop?

Save wiping is EA stuff unless developers specifically go public promising it won't happen anymore. At that point, it's not just EA stuff anymore. You don't mind? Good for you. I do.

[Splashbang]

İlk olarak Raykael tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak spectre199 tarafından gönderildi:

This is not a scam and you do not even know what scam is. You also do not even know how game development works.

Sure, selling something with a promise to deliver a feature to just go back to it and not deliver the promised feature because you're not willing to work on it anymore it's not a scam, and game development works preying on early access users to meet target sales and revenue while planning to focus on other platforms.

What can I say kid, you got it all figured out.

İlk olarak Sgt.JESUS tarafından gönderildi:

Its hopeless, people have no patience anymore, why buy EA if you think game development is without any bumps in the road?

Just cut the devs some slack will you, forgive and forget, like i said before, its not a big deal to wipe, recently Mandragora put Denuvo malware a month before release, now thats a big deal imo, wiping is just normal EA stuff.

I already made it clear that I do not buy Early Access for this exact reason: I do not want to play over and over the same section of the game. I bought when they promised that there would not be save resets anymore, because they promised it in their official update.

Let me ask you, instead: why should I give a pass to people that are blatantly caught in a lie and are financing console development with the money they got from me thanks to a feature they are not willing anymore to develop?

Save wiping is EA stuff unless developers specifically go public promising it won't happen anymore. At that point, it's not just EA stuff anymore. You don't mind? Good for you. I do.

I repeat: Being able to carry saves from version to version in EA is not a feature but a nice gesture from the developers.

You truly are making sure everyone knows that you have absolutely no clue about game development. I'm having a laugh, that's for sure..

[Deadpoetic6]

Refund, stop crying and go away.

[Somamint]

What do you prefer? Keep bugs inside the game which can be serious just to keep the promise of saves.

Or start new. And get a more polished game? As many people said in game development nothing is wrtitten in stone. So many things can happen and change.

So why not appreciate that these developers trying the best for us? Why so serious? I mean look at the updates. There sooo big and so many features. Every Month you get an update whats going on in development.

Iam sure they would keep the promise for the saves. IF THEY COULD.... This is not something about lazy developers as you can see they trying the best.

[Somamint]

İlk olarak Somamint tarafından gönderildi:

What do you prefer? Keep bugs inside the game which can be serious just to keep the promise of saves.

Or start new. And get a more polished game? As many people said in game development nothing is wrtitten in stone. So many things can happen and change.

So why not appreciate that these developers trying the best for us? Why so serious? I mean look at the updates. There sooo big and so many features. Every Month you get an update whats going on in development.

Iam sure they would keep the promise for the saves. IF THEY COULD.... This is not something about lazy developers as you can see they trying the best.

But iam cursious? How much experience does the complainers have in Game Development??
Have you ever try to create a game or even a mod????

[Splashbang]

İlk olarak Somamint tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Somamint tarafından gönderildi:

What do you prefer? Keep bugs inside the game which can be serious just to keep the promise of saves.

Or start new. And get a more polished game? As many people said in game development nothing is wrtitten in stone. So many things can happen and change.

So why not appreciate that these developers trying the best for us? Why so serious? I mean look at the updates. There sooo big and so many features. Every Month you get an update whats going on in development.

Iam sure they would keep the promise for the saves. IF THEY COULD.... This is not something about lazy developers as you can see they trying the best.

But iam cursious? How much experience does the complainers have in Game Development??
Have you ever try to create a game or even a mod????

I can tell you right now. They have zero experience and definitely zero knowledge. If they had actual experience with game development, or knew anything about game development, they'd know that game development is never straight forward and that more often than not, unforeseen things happen due to how technology and coding works (or doesn't work sometimes, depending on the game engine).

Heck, just doing a simple update to the game engine might have adverse effects on what's already there, meaning they have to do a lot of stuff over again from scratch.

They just call it a 'scam' because they feel 'cheated' because they lost their progress.. In other words, they're butthurt kids.

Honestly, best thing to do with people like this is to just report, block and move on and let the moderators deal with them. The less attention they get, the better.

[Heebe_Jeebe]

I bought in December and am waiting for 1.0. I've been following this games progress since before the 0.7 release

I don't see that the developers have been deceptive in any way. Deception implies an active intent to mislead a person. I see this as the developer making the mistake of sharing their best hopes with customers, assuming that the customers would understand their perspective and the process of game development. It is a marketing blunder

I never read the December update as a promise, and save wipes are to be expected in EA. Buying any EA title requires a certain amount of risk tolerance and the best approach is to relinquish any expectations you have of future features at time of purchase

Compared to the AAA mess of an industry gaming has become, the developers of Tainted Grail have been transparent about their process and mistakes. They have also bee relatively on schedule, and apologised openly for their mistakes. Read any AAA game forum and you will see plenty of people discussing save wipe/corruption issues

I can appreciate it must really suck to have to deal with a wipe, especially if you're invested in your character, or story arc. I just believe the developers deserve the benefit of the doubt in this case, and are worthy of forgiveness

I hope everyone enjoys the 1.0 release

[Raykael]

İlk olarak Scumdrop tarafından gönderildi:

*Hands OP a box of tissues* ...another crybaby that doesn't understand what EA means....it's still in development, that means it isn't finished yet, it means that, even though you've invested some money, you've (as I and many others) essentially helped invested into the development of the as of yet 'unfinished' product, so when the developers make something they have every right to tweak/wipe/edit etc their product as they see fit until they finish and in turn release the FULL GAME 1.0 of which you get as a reward for investing in their Early Access Development...

Insults aside, I already explained that the moment the developers announces a certain feature in their official developers update, that feature is more than a reasonable expectation. Maybe they should not promise features they are not willing to deliver.

If they were really in good faith, I do not understand why they would not want to allow refund since this whole situation was caused by them, anyway.