Impossible to play a melee fighter !!

[Mitrius]

2 hits and no more stamina...
Dying all the time.
Game is 90% loading save, 10% dying.

I don't want to be an Archer-Mage-Infiltrator-optional melee.
I want to be a real fighter.

[Raubritter]

Melee is hilariously OP actually. But you do have to put points in stamina and either learn to parry, or rely on dodges.

[SzargontheCultured]

Origineel geplaatst door likho1eye:

I agree with the OP in general terms. This game is so similar to the TES series that it has the same meta problems. It basically twists your arm into stealth archer build from the start, which is safe and rewarding to play in the world where every bandit or zombie can 1-shot you. Melee fighter builds seem to be the opposite - all risk, no reward.

The parry mechanic is interesting, but it has several issues
1) Timing feels a bit off with enemy attack animations, and if you miss one - you're dead.
2) It doesn't actually damage enemy stamina like it does in the tutorial. Actual enemies in game seem to have either too much stamina, or the mechanic is broken somehow. You'd have to parry them like 100 times to actually stun them.
3) It does nothing to mitigate damage when fighting multiple enemies.

Dodge mechanic is just way more reliable avenue of avoiding taking damage. Do a sprint attack, slam one enemy, dodge out, repeat. But even that offers no reward over simply 1-shotting enemies at distance from sneak.

So other than couple of scripted encounters where game forces you into close range combat, there is no reason to play melee beyond ones ego.

To be clear, I don't suggest nerfing ranged combat or stealth attacks. I'd love to see more reward for engaging in more risky combat.

well devs already plan to nerf archery a fair bit for early game at least and i played the whole game as greatsword wielding maniac and hardly had any problems as long as i didnt get winded from overusing my stamina, on medium difficulty iirc

[likho1eye]

Origineel geplaatst door SzargontheCultured:

well devs already plan to nerf archery a fair bit for early game at least and i played the whole game as greatsword wielding maniac and hardly had any problems as long as i didnt get winded from overusing my stamina, on medium difficulty iirc

I would never accuse any game dev of being smart or actually playing own game on max difficulty.

[Blackdragon]

Origineel geplaatst door Lawrence:

This game is designed in a way that if you know where all the good relics and weapons are, you can scale up very quickly. Melee is probably the easiest to play at about mid-game onward, life-steal + armor + str + end. Dual wielding is likely the best combo, since some relics applied to your offhand will be applied to your main hand as well (like lifesteal),

There are generally very few worthwhile melee weapon relics in my experience. By level 32 I've only found one lifesteal relic (Bloodthorn +1) that gives 4 lifesteal. Grimalkin's Eye (+damage based on % of missing health) seems useful for a Thornsword build, or generally a tank. All other weapon relics either offer minor damage bonuses (Starborn's egg, Feral charm), improve sneak attack (only applicable to melee rogues, and if you go rogue then might as well go stealth archer), or do not apply to melee weapons altogether (Raven's Wing).

I don't know if on-hit effect relics such as Incandescent Pearl or Blight Opal might translate from off-hand to main-hand (logically they shouldn't), but my goal is one-hit kill anyway, so on-hit effects don't really seem optimal to me. And if I want burn on hit, I might as well use Galahad's Mace or Infernal Blade.

Origineel geplaatst door Lawrence:

you get an attack speed increase and you can find very good main hands that take no stamina to swing.

No stamina to swing? How is that possible? I haven't found a single weapon so far that doesn't require stamina to strike. And so far all one-handed weapons I've found seem inferior to the two-handed Big 3 (Thornsword, Executioner's Axe, Galahad's Mace).

EDIT: After having found Percival's Blades, Infernal Blade and Frostblade, they seem at best a sidegrade to any of the Big 3 two-handed weapons. Two-handers get two unique bonuses from skills: +25% heavy attack damage, and 20% AOE damage in an 8 m radius from heavy attacks. That is quite massive in terms of DPS, and combined with lifesteal and heavy armor it really means you heal faster than enemies damage you. Also, a two-hander gets two relic slots instead of one, which allows using two unique relics constantly (such as Bloodthorn), while on a one-handed set they would only get used half the time.

While Percival's blades offer high base damage, their stamina cost to swing is almost the same as for two-handers. And while Frostblade's freezing mechanic is neat, funnily the ability to insta-gib frozen targets is only available for two-handers.

In fact, what begins to interest me more is the stat requirement on weapons, and how much you will have to sink into non-primary stats to wield them. For example, Galahad's Mace needs 5 Spirituality, which is strictly not needed for a heavy armor build (+500% mana cost and -70% mana regeneration kills all casting basically). Thornsword needs 10 Endurance; while Endurance is definitely more useful for a warrior than Spirituality, still this takes an extra 5 points away from Strength as compared to the Mace. Executioner's Axe needs 5 Dexterity (useful for attack speed) and 5 Perception (useful for critical chance), so while it takes away 10 from Strength like Thornsword, it also invests these points into other offensive skills rather than purely hitpoints/encumbrance.

In this respect, Nuckelavee's sword is interesting since it offers high base damage (32-42, more than Inferno Blade) while having zero stat requirements. Compare to Perceval's blade, which has 50-60 base damage, but requires 10 Dex and 10 Spirituality investment; putting the same 20 points into Strength would net a whopping +300% damage bonus, so for example a level 40 build with 20 STR, 10 DEX and 10 SPI would deal on average 180 damage per hit with Perceval's blade, the same level character with 40 STR and Nuckelavee's sword would deal 222 damage per hit. And while 10 Dex at least gives +50% attack speed (presumably putting Perceval's blade slighty ahead in terms of DPS), 10 Spirituality is a complete waste.

Another point is synergy with other weapons (such as Galahad's Mace having the same requirements as Inferno Blade and Frostblade). So there's a lot of balancing to keep in mind when choosing a melee weapon.

As opposed to Ranged, when I just pick up the Powerbow and snipe everyone from a distance.

[Blackdragon]

Having equipped myself in Royal Butcher's armor and wielding an upgraded Galahad's mace with lifesteal relic and amulet, after respeccing into a 2-h melee build I have to say the game is not harder than a stealth archer, but much much faster. I basically run up to enemies and bash them into the ground, healing all damage via lifesteal. It's a welcome change from having to sneak around and being a glass cannon. I do miss the ability to use magic though, since the mana penalties for heavy armor are very restrictive; but otherwise, it's quite fun.