Yes, there is a combat balance issue

[Battury]

And it desperately needs to be addressed, as it is probably the single biggest thing holding the game back from being more popular.

Once you get past the prologue, the game's difficulty is all over the place. Enemies will regularly one-shot you, but need three to four hits from you to kill. Enemies that need to hit you two or three times to kill you are often clumped in groups. If you ever run out of stamina, you're pretty much dead. Leveling your Endurance to get more health does not feel impactful.

At level 15, with 9 points in Endurance, wearing full heavy armor, I am still getting one-shot by a Highwayman with a bow. And of course, they clump those enemies in groups of three or four, often with multiple men with bows standing behind men rushing you in melee combat.

In an early dungeon full of low level enemies, there are two or three enemies that will one-shot you and take almost no damage when you hit them. There is no indication this is an unwinnable fight other than when you die over and over to them.

One time I exited a dungeon and was immediately attacked by like, six wyrdspawn all at once. I was level 14 maybe, and had never encountered a wyrdspawn before that moment.

The game telegraphs enemies that are astronomically too high level above you, but does not telegraph enemies that are just, like, very high above you. Like, I had a significantly easier time taking down the Ogres that have red skulls on the HUD than I did those Lost Knights in that dungeon. I spent half an hour cheesing them at least. With the Ogres, I just had to pop a couple potions and try once or twice to beat them.

The combat philosophy thus far seems to be to make everything a glass canon. You, enemies, everyone. Except when they decide to make something a stone canon and it hits extremely hard and has extremely high health.

Now I want to include some praise for the devs and how they've handled combat as well. Combat has improved SO MUCH since the early days of the game. I mean it FEELS really, really good now. Parrying feels great, landing hits feels great, all of it. The only reason I'm giving constructive criticism here is because all the constructive criticism in the early days of the early access got us those phenomenal changes. It is my hope that if enough people all come out and say "Hey, guys, there really is a problem here," they'll apply the same effort to fixing it as they did the early combat issues.

Anyway, I'm still playing the game and still loving the game, but it would be nice to have to save scum less because a random enemy somewhere decided it was going to be a boss in disguise.

[Harcon]

Very well written, and I agree with your post for early access it is going very well.

[Bandy]

I am not playing the most recent update (decided to wait for more progress) so has combat changed much from before the update? Before was tougher than Skyrim, but certainly not Dark Souls difficult, which is TOUGH but fair if player thinks outside the box and doesn't keep repeating their same failures and mistakes.

Originally posted by Battury:

In an early dungeon full of low level enemies, there are two or three enemies that will one-shot you and take almost no damage when you hit them. There is no indication this is an unwinnable fight other than when you die over and over to them....

Be specific, are you talking about the stone knights in the catacombs? You say "Lost Knights in the dungeon" elsewhere. What weapon were you using, because perhaps that knight had resistance to that weapon damage type, but just a guess were you using arrows? The stone knight was a challenge but did not take a "half hour" for me, I was not bow kiting...

Do not mistake my post, yes, TG still needs much work on <all> aspects. I would not characterize the combat as "FEELS really, really good now..." because it does not to me. But from what I see in these similar forum posts are players who want the game to match their expectations rather than make adjustments and play the game presented to them. Think outside the box, mix up approaches, and maybe you will prevail next time.

[Battury]

Originally posted by Bandy:

I am not playing the most recent update (decided to wait for more progress) so has combat changed much from before the update? Before was tougher than Skyrim, but certainly not Dark Souls difficult, which is TOUGH but fair if player thinks outside the box and doesn't keep repeating their same failures and mistakes.

The problem with this is that if enemies are all one-shotting you, then the only viable tactic is stealth, and that invalidates melee builds and mages.

Originally posted by Bandy:

Be specific, are you talking about the stone knights in the catacombs? You say "Lost Knights in the dungeon" elsewhere. What weapon were you using, because perhaps that knight had resistance to that weapon damage type, but just a guess were you using arrows? The stone knight was a challenge but did not take a "half hour" for me, I was not bow kiting...

Yes, the Lost Knights are the stone knights in the graveyard catacombs. But no, I was not using a bow, I was using 2h sword, and only used strong attacks directed at his head. It didn't take me half an hour for a single fight, I'm saying I had to grind fighting the three of them over and over again for half an hour before I finally got through it without being hit. On on one, I didn't take on all three at once, mind you.

And I'm sorry, but RPGs that let you choose your build and specialize do not allow for one to "mix up their approach." I have specialized into a heavy armor 2h weapon fighter. How do I mix up my approach? Use bows? Magic? Come at it from a different angle? There was no other way to approach those fights. There are no tools in the game currently for every build to mix up their approach. I'd love to be able to like, throw something to pull enemies away from a group so I can take them down in melee, but I can't. I'd love to have more combat options so that I don't have to beat my head against a wall when I face down an enemy that can kill me in one hit. But the options simply do not exist yet.

[Bandy]

First question was (because I'm now waiting for the game...), has combat changed much from before the update? I played about 30-40 hours before this last update and found it tough but not that difficult, and I'm an older gamer.

RE: changing things up...
Have you tried a bludgeoning weapon? I could see a 'stone' knight being very resistant to 'piercing' and 'slashing' damage, right? While bludgeoning may smash a stone. I'm just guessing, no inside information here.

Have you tried foods, potions, etc. that may give you buff effects? I usually try to play without them, but when in tough situations take them to get past the hurdle.

Are you using the surroundings to best effect? I remember fighting the stone knight and using the sarcophagi to block his movement and attacks, then circling around to flank attack. Rinse and repeat. Some players know nothing but tanking; blame skyrim...

As mentioned, it has been a while since I played TG, so it may be that the update has made combat into a more unfair situation. Game is early access, devs going to try to mix it up as well...

[vencent1300]

I second this. I just picked the game up and experienced everything you stated to the T loll. I feel like they just gotta balance it and itll be sooo good, soooo damn good. The Stamina lose mechanic defiantly needs work and the one shooting issues gotta go or be fixed cause everything feels so good in the melee combat

[PuppYofDOOM]

I can take multiple melee hits but anyone throws something or an arrow and i DIE.. lol... i guess this is how skyrim npcs felt when id bow them.

[Frag]

Originally posted by Battury:

Yes, the Lost Knights are the stone knights in the graveyard catacombs. But no, I was not using a bow, I was using 2h sword, and only used strong attacks directed at his head. It didn't take me half an hour for a single fight, I'm saying I had to grind fighting the three of them over and over again for half an hour before I finally got through it without being hit. On on one, I didn't take on all three at once, mind you.

And I'm sorry, but RPGs that let you choose your build and specialize do not allow for one to "mix up their approach." I have specialized into a heavy armor 2h weapon fighter. How do I mix up my approach? Use bows? Magic? Come at it from a different angle? There was no other way to approach those fights. There are no tools in the game currently for every build to mix up their approach. I'd love to be able to like, throw something to pull enemies away from a group so I can take them down in melee, but I can't. I'd love to have more combat options so that I don't have to beat my head against a wall when I face down an enemy that can kill me in one hit. But the options simply do not exist yet.

The lost knights will one shot you but their moves are very slow and well telegraphed, they take a few seconds to actually try to hit you so you should easily be able to dodge as long as you don't over commit. I was surprised when a knight one shot me at first, it took me about five minutes of save scumming to nail down the attack patterns then I took down all of them individually without further issues. I've specced into 1H and shield, currently using a longsword. I usually open with a couple of bow attacks then switch to melee. Are there any other enemies you've run into that you think are unbalanced? The knights are the first enemy I've had any real difficulty with initially and given how slow the attacks are I thought they weren't that hard.

Ogres I've found to be similar, be sure to stay out of the way of the first few attacks then you can see the patterns. Grindylows are annoying but also kinda fragile. I'd like stamina to be buffed a bit in general but I've yet to run into an enemy I'd consider to be outright unfair.

[Sir MadGeorge]

For your stamina problem, I got +30 stamina regen necklace from unknown items. That's powerfull item.

[☩Sparrow421]

GOG player here who follows the steam discussions. I just want to add that stealth bow, much like skyrim is insanely OP. I noticed the same issues as OP and decided to go this route. I love playing an assassin character but im one shotting everything in stealth with a glass cannon perception dex build sporting the assassin set. Bosses included. While its funny it does detract from any real challenge. The only downside is if i get blind sided or miss my first shot but with that being said it doesnt seem building tanky will help that cause anyways. Which makes it the obvious path to take. I also mimic the views of others that magic requires too much for such little payout. Tried it and reloaded my save.

I love this game but combat definitely needs a lot of tweaking and balancing before a full release is even thought of.

[Summonergeek]

I agree. I keep restarting on different difficulties. Easy is way to easy and it hurts my ego to play on easy but now normal is WAAAAAY too hard. Also there is still stuttering. Less now but on a high end rig like mine it shouldn't be happening at all. Even on low settings.

[Battury]

Originally posted by Frag:

The lost knights will one shot you but their moves are very slow and well telegraphed, they take a few seconds to actually try to hit you so you should easily be able to dodge as long as you don't over commit. I was surprised when a knight one shot me at first, it took me about five minutes of save scumming to nail down the attack patterns then I took down all of them individually without further issues.

I thought the same thing, but for some reason when I fought them, their attacks did not follow the same speed. They had exactly two attack patters. An overhead down slam, and a thrust. Both would completely change speed randomly on me. I found that the further I was away, the slower the attack speed was (meaning significant wind up, and significant recovery times), but if they initiated the attack while I was close, the wind up and recovery was waaaaay faster. To the point where it almost seemed like a glitch. So for five attacks in a row (just picking an arbitrary number) it would take two seconds of windup time for the overhead slam to telegraph, then execute. But then on the sixth time, it would take .8 seconds for the windup and execution of the attack. Felt very cheap. The only reason it took me so long to beat those three knights was exclusively because of sudden changes in attack speed.

[Specter]

I played the game for the first time like a week ago. I was not invested in the game before that, i did not follow the EA by any means, so i think, i can give a very unbiased opinion.

The combat is an issue, but also the biggest chance this game has.

When i played the dmeo, i was very happy. Skyrim combat but with actualy parrys and dodge. You actualy had to fight a bit clever and you have some skill checks like the parry.
Than i hit the main game and well, it was get onshoted or one shot yourself. Parry is way to risky and the window is way way to strikt. I was just running around like a naked mad man stabing every enemy with a zweihänder.
Heavy attack, next enemy, heavy attack, next
Incoming attack? Dodge. Than heavy attack.
I was realy disapointed.

Now, i said it is also the biggest chance this game has. Sometimes you encounter a game and you think: Man, if this and that would be changed, it would be amazing. But you know, they would have do redo the whole gae for that.
This game is different. With a few changes they could make this combat system actualy work realy well.
So i do hope, they manage to do so, although did they not already rework the combat? Makes me a bit nervous.

Gampely is king in video games. Sure a good world and good quest are important. But they gameplay and thus the combat system is the most important thing.
And this game has a huge potential.

[Battury]

Originally posted by Specter:

I played the game for the first time like a week ago. I was not invested in the game before that, i did not follow the EA by any means, so i think, i can give a very unbiased opinion.

The combat is an issue, but also the biggest chance this game has.

When i played the dmeo, i was very happy. Skyrim combat but with actualy parrys and dodge. You actualy had to fight a bit clever and you have some skill checks like the parry.
Than i hit the main game and well, it was get onshoted or one shot yourself. Parry is way to risky and the window is way way to strikt. I was just running around like a naked mad man stabing every enemy with a zweihänder.
Heavy attack, next enemy, heavy attack, next
Incoming attack? Dodge. Than heavy attack.
I was realy disapointed.

Now, i said it is also the biggest chance this game has. Sometimes you encounter a game and you think: Man, if this and that would be changed, it would be amazing. But you know, they would have do redo the whole gae for that.
This game is different. With a few changes they could make this combat system actualy work realy well.
So i do hope, they manage to do so, although did they not already rework the combat? Makes me a bit nervous.

Gampely is king in video games. Sure a good world and good quest are important. But they gameplay and thus the combat system is the most important thing.
And this game has a huge potential.

You get it, man. If they could get combat balanced, let it get a *rhythm*, oh boy. It would be some of the best first person melee combat out there.

[Shade30Seven]

Yeah i was kinda wondering why i would be fighting, hiding, re-engage, taking damage etc etc, then all the sudden just get one shotted! makes no sense!

[treahnurb]

Mage is a solid build. I played melee on my first character and mage on my second. Okay, I AM a stealth mage, fair, fair. But only until recently! For melee, you just - wait for it - need to dodge. That's the thing. Dodge. Use dodge and block. Use your time slow ability. Don't forget your time slow ability.
Mage is a lot of running in circles, but it works. Plus the raven spell is an ass saver 9000.
However it is possible that heavy armour sucks. I don't think you're supposed to get hit AT ALL in the game. Either be stealth, be range, be tricky or - dodge.