Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon

Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon

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StoryGamer May 31, 2024 @ 1:16pm
The writing seems... terrible?
I'm not that far, and I've heard a lot about how great the story and lore of this game is (across various media). But so far, everything seems to be one of the following:

* utterly perfunctory task-directed dialogue (*before I let you see the captain, you must perform this mission*)
* vague and unexplained gray soulslike placeholders for lore. Like, those huge crucified faceless men -- what are they? I get no sense that any of these cool images has any actual meaning.
* dull, unrealistic, repetitive, and immersion-killing encounters, probably random. It seems like I get attacked every fifty meters. This is nonsensical, lore-wise; in a world like this, no one would survive. These events don't advance the story, and they aren't fun gameplay.
* dialogue that is jokey but not funny, like a fourth-rate Joss Whedon imitation. Everybody's always talking in this self-aware, quippy way, but none of it is ever witty enough to be entertaining.

Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong, it gets better, the dialogue improves, the witless jokes stop... I just sank $200 into the board game and some expansions.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Bandy May 31, 2024 @ 2:42pm 
Originally posted by kizarvexius12:
...I just sank $200 into the board game and some expansions.
Uh, this is not the forum for the board game, or the expansions, just saying...
StoryGamer May 31, 2024 @ 11:10pm 
Originally posted by Bandy:
Originally posted by kizarvexius12:
...I just sank $200 into the board game and some expansions.
Uh, this is not the forum for the board game, or the expansions, just saying...

Yeah, I’m aware. But this is a multimedia project, it’s supposed to be telling a vast expansive story over multiple video games and board games and ttrpg…. I was caught up in the hype, and I’m hoping someone here will tell me something good about the lore and story.
Makan Jul 9, 2024 @ 1:06pm 
Originally posted by StoryGamer:
Originally posted by Bandy:
Uh, this is not the forum for the board game, or the expansions, just saying...

Yeah, I’m aware. But this is a multimedia project, it’s supposed to be telling a vast expansive story over multiple video games and board games and ttrpg…. I was caught up in the hype, and I’m hoping someone here will tell me something good about the lore and story.
I know it's an old topic but if you haven't find what you're looking for there is this note from the writer :
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1199030/discussions/0/3435626645074338412/
Last edited by Makan; Jul 9, 2024 @ 1:07pm
Battury Jul 9, 2024 @ 9:54pm 
1, I never really noticed the dialogue not being particularly pointed as you describe. Maybe it is and I just never noticed, but I don't expect Naughty Dog dialogue and characters from an indie dev's first RPG.
2. I feel like the lore is fine thus far (though I'd really like more), but I do 100% agree with there being a lot of imagery in the game that doesn't seem to come to or from anything. A lot of "Hey, this would look cool!" without any lore to back it up.
3. The encounters are no worse than any other RPG encounter. Enemies dot the world, because ultimately, the only tools you get to interact with the world with are hammers, and thus they give you a lot of encounters with nails.
4. I can't relate to this. I am enjoying the characters thus far. I think a little better presentation would go a long way, but idk man. I haven't met any characters I found annoying, and I'm usually pretty nitpicky when it comes to dialogue.
StoryGamer Jul 10, 2024 @ 11:32am 
Originally posted by Makan:
Originally posted by StoryGamer:

Yeah, I’m aware. But this is a multimedia project, it’s supposed to be telling a vast expansive story over multiple video games and board games and ttrpg…. I was caught up in the hype, and I’m hoping someone here will tell me something good about the lore and story.
I know it's an old topic but if you haven't find what you're looking for there is this note from the writer :
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1199030/discussions/0/3435626645074338412/

Thanks, that post is well-written and shows a lot of thought went into it. I appreciate it greatly.

I'm guessing Mr. Piskorski writes the story and someone else writes the dialogue.
[NF] St!X Jul 14, 2024 @ 10:55am 
If that makes you feel better, the boardgame is pretty good regarding the lore and ambiance.
Mechanisms are a bit boring after a few dozen hours in, BUT overall it was a good experience for me and my group of players (unfortunately we stretched the main campaign for too long, so my friends don't want to spend time in the other campaigns).

Haven't yet started this PC game though, I'll probably spend a few hours within the next couple of weeks. Your post makes me slightly worried (I came here for the "ambiance", the lore and the writing).
Hopefully some quests are interesting enough they'll give me some material for the ttrpg.
Bandy Jul 14, 2024 @ 2:06pm 
Originally posted by NF St!X:
...

Haven't yet started this PC game though, I'll probably spend a few hours within the next couple of weeks. Your post makes me slightly worried ...
The game is in early access, you need to make a decision to play now and provide <constructive criticism>, OR just wait for the full release. No whinge.
Angrysquirrel Jul 15, 2024 @ 5:55pm 
You're wrong. You're David Wong. Eat the sauce with Chinese food.
StoryGamer Jul 16, 2024 @ 9:58am 
Originally posted by Angrysquirrel:
You're wrong. You're David Wong. Eat the sauce with Chinese food.

No, my early impression was accurate. After four hours, I thought the writing was terrible; after 26, there’s no question.

The worst dialogue I’ve ever encountered. Jokey but never funny, consistently witless.

If they want constructive criticism, it would be: writing is a skill. Hire someone who has that skill. Ideally from the WGA, since they focus mostly on dialogue; if they can’t afford WGA rates, then hire a writer from the SFWA.
Bandy Jul 18, 2024 @ 1:41pm 
Originally posted by StoryGamer:
...The worst dialogue I’ve ever encountered. Jokey but never funny, consistently witless. ...
Sure, not the best game dialogue I've experienced, but not the worst either.
Maybe somethings were lost in translation and/or there are different cultural humour norms? What one culture thinks is funny is not necessarily what others laugh at.
Last edited by Bandy; Jul 18, 2024 @ 8:30pm
PainKiller Jul 20, 2024 @ 8:29am 
Originally posted by StoryGamer:
I'm not that far, and I've heard a lot about how great the story and lore of this game is (across various media). But so far, everything seems to be one of the following:

* utterly perfunctory task-directed dialogue (*before I let you see the captain, you must perform this mission*)
* vague and unexplained gray soulslike placeholders for lore. Like, those huge crucified faceless men -- what are they? I get no sense that any of these cool images has any actual meaning.
* dull, unrealistic, repetitive, and immersion-killing encounters, probably random. It seems like I get attacked every fifty meters. This is nonsensical, lore-wise; in a world like this, no one would survive. These events don't advance the story, and they aren't fun gameplay.
* dialogue that is jokey but not funny, like a fourth-rate Joss Whedon imitation. Everybody's always talking in this self-aware, quippy way, but none of it is ever witty enough to be entertaining.

Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong, it gets better, the dialogue improves, the witless jokes stop... I just sank $200 into the board game and some expansions.
pretty good writing id say. welcome to the greedy era. this soldier will maek you to do his job + he will see if you are trust worthy.
Sparhawk122 Jul 20, 2024 @ 3:21pm 
I have noticed that all the dialogue is the same. No updates in that regard.

Also a weird decision to not include main quests for the second main region. I wonder how far off they are.
Last edited by Sparhawk122; Jul 20, 2024 @ 3:21pm
StoryGamer Jul 29, 2024 @ 10:11am 
Originally posted by Bandy:
Originally posted by StoryGamer:
...The worst dialogue I’ve ever encountered. Jokey but never funny, consistently witless. ...
Sure, not the best game dialogue I've experienced, but not the worst either.
Maybe somethings were lost in translation and/or there are different cultural humour norms? What one culture thinks is funny is not necessarily what others laugh at.

These are some examples of the English dialogue. They’re not the worst examples. They’re not outstanding, not unusual, not rare. They’re just a few I stopped and jotted down while playing. They’re moronic jokes, nothing even remotely witty or clever about them, and never even 1% appropriate to the scene.

Virtually everyone talks like this.

“It's good to know you're not as incompetent as the rest of your tribe."

"I guess you still haven't sobered up, huh?"

"You're my new worker? You don't look like one. And with arms like these, you couldn't even lift the tiniest of rocks."

"You have such a stupid face. With all due respect, of course."

"You're definitely too cute for a demon. Not much, but still."

It is CONSTANT. It is WITLESS. It comes from every character, because no one has a distinct voice. It’s never appropriate to the situation. It’s never meaningful. It’s never clever. It never provides any insight into the voice of the character, or their motivations. It is ATROCIOUS WRITING. I have never encountered worse dialogue anywhere, in the worst video game, the worst movie, the worst tv show, the worst novel, the worst comic book, the most moronic human beings I’ve ever spoken with.

EVERY professional writer — even the ones just scraping by — would do a far, far better job than this. I think most adults would do a better job than this.
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Date Posted: May 31, 2024 @ 1:16pm
Posts: 13