Sandbox gameplay discussion for 'casual' play

[Tony]

So, admittedly, I haven't put the time into this game I probably should have. That said, love the gameplay itself. Love the feel and design. I don't have any real "complaints" - especially since this is still EA.

However, I feel like I played myself out of my sandbox game because I was casually playing while working - sometimes forgetting to pause. This caused me to run into a few issues...

1 - Slag % is seemingly too high. I had 12 containers of slag and not nearly enough use for it. I had drones constantly trying to manage slag - it became a real pain point and caused multiple constructors to halt due to lack of resources. Definitely need to lower the % or have some way to deal with slag earlier in the game. Even something like "build rocket ships to fly that crap into the sun"... don't really care, but gotta do something with it.

2 - Time\speed - things are really inconsistent, or maybe my perspective is wrong. The game is slow... REALLY slow, unless you play at 3x speed. But even then, it feels sluggish. Especially considering the tech tree. It feels like there's never enough technologies unless you are constant, and I mean CONSTANTly micro-managing every contract and rover. Researching took MONTHS - which, okay, I get that it should, but at the same time, my production was WAY TOO low because everything was still moving at a snails pace. I don't have a good way to fix that - this is just my play observation.

3 - Figuring out the ratios is nigh impossible. I still don't know how many refineries I should have per miner... or how many miners per refinery... or how many furnaces need. Especially given the tech tree where I can increase the refinery production by 100%, but the miner couldn't keep up anyway, so where's the value? Do I use multiple miners on one ore vein to speed that up? But now I'm depleting the vein too quick and I still can't process it all anyway, so what was the value in it - and now I have all this extra slag (see point 1). These really need to be adjusted and having some tech-tips showing expected input/output would be great. I realize this would obviously change a core-gameplay mechanic with the resource veins being unique, or so it seems.

4 - Tying in with point 3, resource deposits, mining them, and using the refineries... if you're going to have %'s of other ores showing up, at least make them usable. I get that the other stuff is becoming the slag, but then it overall needs to become more usable or have a "reprocessing" tree so that the ores can be used like regolith in general in the multi-regolith processor.

5 - Still sticking with point 3, the resource nodes are too small. I've tried placing 2 miners, and that's fine, but then the resource is drying up to quickly. Because I played a more casual, learning-style, I basically at up resources and depleted veins - and once I did that, I was screwed. You become locked with no real way of progression... the game just ends, basically. Having the MDR is fine... but it's too slow to move materials, you don't know what you're really going to get, it's just unproductive overall. It's a nice addition, don't get me wrong, but it's not entirely 'useful'. And if you took too long to get to it, it IS useless.

6 - What happens when I do deplete everything under the moon surface? Sure, I made my money, but I don't have any materials because everything went into those contracts, and now I just have to buy everything back... if I'm going to be locked into my game space, then you can't really deplete the veins or it's over. I've seen so many people complain, and I've had this issue as well in the initial starting, but if you can't find the veins to start or if you don't have enough, you might as well start over. I think this has to be rebalanced or just remove depletion, a la Satisfactory. I also think if you made them limitless, you would need to balance that with limiting only one miner to each vein. Or, and this is a better option in my opinion - you have the option to move to other sites and start brand new operations. This would open a new explorer operation to the game. Sending out scout teams to find a suitable site, sending resources, building the elevators. Now, you've got two sites, three sites to manage - you can build 'connectors' to transfer resources and staff between sites, create a true colony/research facility that above ground. I feel like this would open the game up tremendously and resolve issues with resource depletion concerns. Think on this one... please :)

7 - Managing the rovers and cargo trucks. This interface really needs some work.I don't mind it, but trying to understand what I need to pick up, deliver, scan or even if there's just nothing to do - this isn't completely clear all the time. Especially when scanning the areas for those 'hidden' things. I had one scan that kept telling me to find the people, but the closer I got the scan would then tell me to go a different direction - I'd leave the area I was in, scan again and it would send me right back to where I was... and on top of that, I had one scan tell me there were hidden things in two different directions. I FINALLY noticed a little green dot that I wondered... "do I need to be directly on top of that to 'find' what I'm looking for" - only to discover, yes... yes that's exactly what I needed to do.

8 - Overall UI impressions. Too many sub-windows or dropdowns/pullouts will blur or hide information. The top of the screen should never be blurred. What's the point of blurring out the technology production info when I'm looking at contracts. I'm easily distracted, so I can look at those numbers, and say, okay, I'm making 60 blue... I want to increase it... open the contracts, and see a contract that's offering 60 blue. Great! oh, but here's a contract offering 400 orange! Wait... do I need orange? I don't know... I can't see it!!! Close contracts, okay, don't need orange... there's the green I was looking for - or was it blue. FRICK!!! Close contracts... why not just not blur out? Why not let me pull down my resource list to see my inventory while in contracts so I don't have to open a contract, I can just stay at the overview screen? I'd also like to see some - and I don't know how to go about this, so I can't offer a real solution here - but I would like to see someway to see on those research points if they're being used or not. The little tip that comes up and says "you're wasting research points" is great and all... but I would like to see that in the top section. Maybe put little warning symbols over them or something... Also, I'd like to see a "Main Menu" button somewhere, instead of having to escape out of every window so that I can then hit ESC again to get to the settings options or save my game. Top Left "Menu" button... Easy fix. And just so that people don't think I'm not not amenable... you can also use the bottom left if you wish - I'll allow it.

Anyway, I know that's long - most people probably won't read it - but I hope someone does and that this isn't taken as me bashing the game - I think it's great. I think it needs some tuning - but it's EA, so that's expected. Keep up the good work. And for God's sake... please don't Techtonica this game... No laser-games... K? Though if you want to make that a recreational thing for the hired staff, that would be cool as shiznit to see them doing! Okay, so yes to laser games - you... I mean I... I changed my mind.

[Yoyo]

Originally posted by Tony:

So, admittedly, I haven't put the time into this game I probably should have. That said, love the gameplay itself. Love the feel and design. I don't have any real "complaints" - especially since this is still EA.

However, I feel like I played myself out of my sandbox game because I was casually playing while working - sometimes forgetting to pause. This caused me to run into a few issues...

1 - Slag % is seemingly too high. I had 12 containers of slag and not nearly enough use for it. I had drones constantly trying to manage slag - it became a real pain point and caused multiple constructors to halt due to lack of resources. Definitely need to lower the % or have some way to deal with slag earlier in the game. Even something like "build rocket ships to fly that crap into the sun"... don't really care, but gotta do something with it.

Multiregs with seperate feeds will get rid of it. The black stuff I convert to bricks. I actually dont have enough slag to feed my brick factories.

2 - Time\speed - things are really inconsistent, or maybe my perspective is wrong. The game is slow... REALLY slow, unless you play at 3x speed. But even then, it feels sluggish. Especially considering the tech tree. It feels like there's never enough technologies unless you are constant, and I mean CONSTANTly micro-managing every contract and rover. Researching took MONTHS - which, okay, I get that it should, but at the same time, my production was WAY TOO low because everything was still moving at a snails pace. I don't have a good way to fix that - this is just my play observation.

Trading is the main thing you do and I think trading is basically 80 percent of my game from right the beginning. I do wish I could auto fulfill trades however, the slider that splits up into multiple 3000 is very sensitive. I wish we could automatically split an order up.

3 - Figuring out the ratios is nigh impossible. I still don't know how many refineries I should have per miner... or how many miners per refinery... or how many furnaces need. Especially given the tech tree where I can increase the refinery production by 100%, but the miner couldn't keep up anyway, so where's the value? Do I use multiple miners on one ore vein to speed that up? But now I'm depleting the vein too quick and I still can't process it all anyway, so what was the value in it - and now I have all this extra slag (see point 1). These really need to be adjusted and having some tech-tips showing expected input/output would be great. I realize this would obviously change a core-gameplay mechanic with the resource veins being unique, or so it seems.

Having multi reg factories at your core is a must. I have 6 Multi regs at the moment all at 94 percent. If I need more of a specific mineral, I will use the below ground sources and feed them straight into the smelter setup. The MDRs will feed all sorts of ratios into the multi reg system (about to double to 12 above ground) and the ratio really does not matter, cause something will come out of it and the black slag, (which I keep running low off), will make thousands of bricks. I do have 6 brick factories, a lot of silicone goes into that. Main issue is that, cause I do have limited amount of silicone.

4 - Tying in with point 3, resource deposits, mining them, and using the refineries... if you're going to have %'s of other ores showing up, at least make them usable. I get that the other stuff is becoming the slag, but then it overall needs to become more usable or have a "reprocessing" tree so that the ores can be used like regolith in general in the multi-regolith processor.

Same answer as above. Who cares about the detail percentage as long as you got a little of everything. MDR management and geo scanning is also important. I need more slag.

5 - Still sticking with point 3, the resource nodes are too small. I've tried placing 2 miners, and that's fine, but then the resource is drying up to quickly. Because I played a more casual, learning-style, I basically at up resources and depleted veins - and once I did that, I was screwed. You become locked with no real way of progression... the game just ends, basically. Having the MDR is fine... but it's too slow to move materials, you don't know what you're really going to get, it's just unproductive overall. It's a nice addition, don't get me wrong, but it's not entirely 'useful'. And if you took too long to get to it, it IS useless.

You should just drop point 3, my 3 MDRs and transport trucks are plenty to feed currently 6 Multi regs and the 6 more I am planning will put a dent in the full cargo stations. 3 is not an issue, if you have multi regs at your core setup.

6 - What happens when I do deplete everything under the moon surface? Sure, I made my money, but I don't have any materials because everything went into those contracts, and now I just have to buy everything back... if I'm going to be locked into my game space, then you can't really deplete the veins or it's over. I've seen so many people complain, and I've had this issue as well in the initial starting, but if you can't find the veins to start or if you don't have enough, you might as well start over. I think this has to be rebalanced or just remove depletion, a la Satisfactory. I also think if you made them limitless, you would need to balance that with limiting only one miner to each vein. Or, and this is a better option in my opinion - you have the option to move to other sites and start brand new operations. This would open a new explorer operation to the game. Sending out scout teams to find a suitable site, sending resources, building the elevators. Now, you've got two sites, three sites to manage - you can build 'connectors' to transfer resources and staff between sites, create a true colony/research facility that above ground. I feel like this would open the game up tremendously and resolve issues with resource depletion concerns. Think on this one... please :)

Moon colonised and new game started? A never ending game with no end game? You will run out of building space and break the 1 billion saved credits before that happens. Tried using geo scanning? So many ressources.

7 - Managing the rovers and cargo trucks. This interface really needs some work.I don't mind it, but trying to understand what I need to pick up, deliver, scan or even if there's just nothing to do - this isn't completely clear all the time. Especially when scanning the areas for those 'hidden' things. I had one scan that kept telling me to find the people, but the closer I got the scan would then tell me to go a different direction - I'd leave the area I was in, scan again and it would send me right back to where I was... and on top of that, I had one scan tell me there were hidden things in two different directions. I FINALLY noticed a little green dot that I wondered... "do I need to be directly on top of that to 'find' what I'm looking for" - only to discover, yes... yes that's exactly what I needed to do.

I am having some issues with cargo trucks asking me to dump its content and not being able to assign trucks to particular cargo stations. The scanning is pretty procedural and I use 1 for scanning and 1 for exploring. Not had an issue with that at all.

8 - Overall UI impressions. Too many sub-windows or dropdowns/pullouts will blur or hide information. The top of the screen should never be blurred. What's the point of blurring out the technology production info when I'm looking at contracts. I'm easily distracted, so I can look at those numbers, and say, okay, I'm making 60 blue... I want to increase it... open the contracts, and see a contract that's offering 60 blue. Great! oh, but here's a contract offering 400 orange! Wait... do I need orange? I don't know... I can't see it!!! Close contracts, okay, don't need orange... there's the green I was looking for - or was it blue. FRICK!!! Close contracts... why not just not blur out? Why not let me pull down my resource list to see my inventory while in contracts so I don't have to open a contract, I can just stay at the overview screen? I'd also like to see some - and I don't know how to go about this, so I can't offer a real solution here - but I would like to see someway to see on those research points if they're being used or not. The little tip that comes up and says "you're wasting research points" is great and all... but I would like to see that in the top section. Maybe put little warning symbols over them or something... Also, I'd like to see a "Main Menu" button somewhere, instead of having to escape out of every window so that I can then hit ESC again to get to the settings options or save my game. Top Left "Menu" button... Easy fix. And just so that people don't think I'm not not amenable... you can also use the bottom left if you wish - I'll allow it.

Like many games, this game requires some sort of memory and it actually will help you keep your brain active. But yes, I do wish there could be an auto buy mode, where you just buy what you need. It would make things a bit smoother.

Anyway, I know that's long - most people probably won't read it - but I hope someone does and that this isn't taken as me bashing the game - I think it's great. I think it needs some tuning - but it's EA, so that's expected. Keep up the good work. And for God's sake... please don't Techtonica this game... No laser-games... K? Though if you want to make that a recreational thing for the hired staff, that would be cool as shiznit to see them doing! Okay, so yes to laser games - you... I mean I... I changed my mind.

[/quote]

I read it all and I think 90 percent of your issues are due to not having multi regs at your core and probably exasperated due to the fact that you are not actually playing the game, but working and alt tabing back to the game here and there to get stuff done.

Focus on the game and you will find that it is a trading game at its core with some factories to help you with the resources you can trade. Saying that, you will find that because it is a trading game, all you care about is that you get some of everything into your containers to trade with. You also need a large landing pad base (I have 12 landing pads and 2 flight control centers in my last play-through)

Having a lot of rare earth factories fed by the MDRs is also crucial, as I am literally not running out of money, I just sell rare minerals and get 200k per 9000 large container. Slag becomes a non issue when you make bricks and sell those in large quantities (5000 or more per trade).

In my books once you get that this is a trading game and you need to know prices to make good deals and fulfill them quickly, so you get extra credits, the game cannot be played casually running on fast in my books. I pause a lot and make a lot of money through trading and continuously balance research. Not for the casual.

[Tony]

Thanks for the tip on the multi regs... I'll try those. I never thought about feeding those from the miners. That does make a crap ton more sense. Changes quite a bit on how the whole undermap is laid out.

I will say, I'm not a huge fan of this being a trading game - I much prefer this being a factory game. I don't mind the trading, but, yeah, it really is heavy on that it seems, for me.

Oh, and I'll try those MDRs again. I wasn't a fan of how they're used - but maybe I'm just not using them right - as you so eloquently point out :)

Thanks for reading the whole thing through and providing some tips...

One thing, though... didn't really appreciate the memory comment - again, playing casually I'm not really focused. To say this is a game that requires your focus is one thing, but I feel like you took a cheap shot here. I believe my point still stands about the interface - why not just not blur it out?

[Yoyo]

Don't take my memory comment personal, was not meant that way. More like a tongue in cheek, think of it that way, I wish we could have something to help us remember the trading volumes required, so I need to use my memory, not something that is actually very user friendly. Really not meant in a bad way. Plus I should have mentioned. I am an old gamer and training my memory is actually a big concern for me. After all, games do help me to stay mentally active. But yeah, more personal to me than for you, I was not referring to you having bad memory, more like, I need the training :)

[Tony]

Originally posted by Yoyo:

Don't take my memory comment personal, was not meant that way. More like a tongue in cheek, think of it that way

My apologies for reading too much into it - I had just gotten my coffee and was probably bit over-sensitive. Appreciate the clarification. We're all good here.

[IRAKLE]

Hi Tony,
Thanks for your detailed opinion, we are very interested to discuss each point:

1- Slag is sometimes in oversupply and sometimes in shortage, we have not yet fully utilized it in production schemes. But even now, to produce large quantities of concrete and modular terminals, a large flow of slag is needed. Also the % of slag decreases a lot in MDR with the presence of improvements for the treatment of mined regolith.

2. I agree with you, we are still working with the balance and we also want to speed up development a bit, especially at the beginning of the game. Maybe we'll add another level of speed or introduce some new unexpected mechanics that I can't announce yet ). And in order to speed up research you just need to buy science points in CRUS Solution or Paid Labratory, or build more of your own labs and hire scientists.

3- Are you using mono or multi regolith purifiers? Because in multi purifiers, all the extracted regolith goes into recycling. Exactly three extractors per multi purifier (20x3=60). The slag is automatically sent to concrete production. In fact, it is possible to build a very stable automated system.

4. are you suggesting to purify only one type of oxide in the mono purifier, so that the remaining regolith retains a useful % of the other oxides? We have thought about this, but here we have the problem of mixing different regolith with different compositions. It's a good idea, in general.

[IRAKLE]

5. We actually balanced the generation of all resource veins a bit, and now they have a larger starting volume. In addition, we are developing a new addition to the game - trains and outposts. In which you will be able to build stationary outposts for mining and processing regolith, as well as trains to deliver oxides to the base in an automated way.

6. Great ideas for expansion! We have been thinking about this kind of game development, for this we need a huge or infinite level, which is difficult technically, especially with graphics of our level. But nothing is impossible, we will explore it.

[IRAKLE]

7. We are already improving the truck management interface, we are adding route management and a new list of all vehicles. As for scanning, in general we like it, but it will also be improved a bit.

[IRAKLE]

8. A main menu button? We don't want to overload the interface with a lot of buttons, but we'll think about it.

[IRAKLE]

I read it all and I think 90 percent of your issues are due to not having multi regs at your core and probably exasperated due to the fact that you are not actually playing the game, but working and alt tabing back to the game here and there to get stuff done.

Focus on the game and you will find that it is a trading game at its core with some factories to help you with the resources you can trade. Saying that, you will find that because it is a trading game, all you care about is that you get some of everything into your containers to trade with. You also need a large landing pad base (I have 12 landing pads and 2 flight control centers in my last play-through)

Having a lot of rare earth factories fed by the MDRs is also crucial, as I am literally not running out of money, I just sell rare minerals and get 200k per 9000 large container. Slag becomes a non issue when you make bricks and sell those in large quantities (5000 or more per trade).

In my books once you get that this is a trading game and you need to know prices to make good deals and fulfill them quickly, so you get extra credits, the game cannot be played casually running on fast in my books. I pause a lot and make a lot of money through trading and continuously balance research. Not for the casual. [/quote]

The game does have a large trade component, and we are continuing to expand the trade mechanics. Along with trains and outposts, we are going to add cities with automatic trade to the game. Imagine a city that has your warehouse/store, where your goods are periodically delivered and sold there in small quantities every month. This is how we get an automatic dealer network for our goods.

[Yoyo]

Originally posted by IRAKLE:

I read it all and I think 90 percent of your issues are due to not having multi regs at your core and probably exasperated due to the fact that you are not actually playing the game, but working and alt tabing back to the game here and there to get stuff done.

Focus on the game and you will find that it is a trading game at its core with some factories to help you with the resources you can trade. Saying that, you will find that because it is a trading game, all you care about is that you get some of everything into your containers to trade with. You also need a large landing pad base (I have 12 landing pads and 2 flight control centers in my last play-through)

Having a lot of rare earth factories fed by the MDRs is also crucial, as I am literally not running out of money, I just sell rare minerals and get 200k per 9000 large container. Slag becomes a non issue when you make bricks and sell those in large quantities (5000 or more per trade).

In my books once you get that this is a trading game and you need to know prices to make good deals and fulfill them quickly, so you get extra credits, the game cannot be played casually running on fast in my books. I pause a lot and make a lot of money through trading and continuously balance research. Not for the casual.

Now I am honored that you copied and pasted most of my comment :).

I love the idea of an automatic dealer!!!!

[Tony]

Irakle, thanks for the reply. As Yoyo also pointed out, yes, my biggest issue is not really getting to the Multi-reg processors. I'm repaying and trying to get to them, along with the MDRs - and I'm also trying to play in a more focused way.

Please don't take this as a shot against you or the game, I am still enjoying it, but I really enjoy more of the factory building genre - so the trading aspect is a bit more of a hindrance for me. I wouldn't ask you to change that part of it and I won't slam the game because it's part of it I don't care for. There's games I love that have aspects I don't care for. That said, this is probably where I'll struggle the most.

And going back to playing casually, that's where I'm missing how this game plays. I tried playing this like I play Satisfactory. It can run for a whole day and nothing really changes for me - so you're right, I definitely need to pay attention, which is what I'm doing on this current play through - I think I'm only on my 4th or 5th night cycle. Keeping it at that slower speed. And yes, I even bought some research.

I didn't properly give the time and focus, so the learning curve was a bit harsh for me. :) But I'll get there.

I love the idea of the train systems, btw.

Regarding Point 4 - at the time of originally writing it, yes, I was making the suggestion of one ore per node, but now understanding the multi-reg processor, this is a moot point. Actually, a lot of my points (except for I believe the balance of slag - but we'll see as I progress) are really moot and solved with the mutli-reg.

Regarding Point 8 - I still believe there's room to add this. Again, the top right would be a perfect spot and all it would do it bring up the ESC Menu. Or it's just a small button you could add to the bottom right. Seems pointless when you can just hit ESC, but if you have anything open, you're now backing out of everything just to get there. Which leads into a general interface option that I would like to see addressed. The top bar I feel needs a general shift to the left. There's too much overlapping with items on the top right. Also, I don't understand why it gets blurred out. I would like to have that top bar along with the bottom buttons be accessible at all times. It would make referencing certain information much easier. Maybe that's just me, but it's definitely something I would appreciate having when I'm in the other menus or sub-screens.

Really appreciate the feedback and you guys reaching out. Keep up the great work. I'm really looking forward to what else you guys have in store.