P16 un-written changes?

[DiluteWings]

ok, i need a little help understanding some possible changes to the P16 and after scouring the patch notes and change logs i cant find anything specific on it. i have a profile i use only for when im doing multiplayer and noticed that there were some differences in the performance since the last time i played around with the P16 (sometime around when season 7 released) i had a particular path i took to bring long logs from black river to island lake, follow the pavement and take the path down where you first find the White WS and follow that path till i got up onto the ridge line. i noticed that with the M900 motor, off road transmission in any low gear and the stock tires the engine bogs down and wont even spin the tires, indicating a lack of power not a lack of traction, last time i went up this path with this exact setup i was able to drive right up every time in low then switching to low- at the top when the tires began to spin without having to winch at all unless i ran into one of the rocks or trees, and now i basically have to winch my way up the entire way. i initially thought it may have been a change to multiplayer but i just tried the same route in single player with the exact same setup as well as the other 2 motor options and it does the same thing and i have to winch up the entire hill. did they nerf the torque on the M900 motor at some point and not put it in the patch notes? and even other paths i have driven seem to also do the same thing, engine bogs down and wont even spin the tires, even tried driving behind another player using a P16 and specifically driving thru their ruts to see if i could get the tires to spin and the only time i can get them to spin is at high speed (deep mud, high gear/auto, on a slight incline). tried using the JAT DLC tires thinking that they may have been updated, but they are the same as before and have terrible traction compared to stock tires as usual and get stuck in medium mud on flat ground and wont even make it from the garage to the log station on black river. trying to help out a player on his MP game they just restarted and im letting them use my truck for some missions till they upgrade their trucks or they already have said truck and they use theirs and in the past i have completed missions with the P16 going specific paths and im letting them know "hey i did this mission with the P16 going this way and never got stuck" and i have had about 6 missions where the P16 had to be winched more than it was driven in certain areas. trying to figure this out as we're playing with a full group of 4, and we're (mainly me) helping them 100% all maps and we finished one players Michigan map this morning and got 2 more to go, and i don't want to tell them to use the P16 if its not gonna work as good as it did before as im constantly getting called to help get someone unstuck from somewhere the P16 should not get stuck, particularly with the logging missions as sometime getting them unstuck they end up dumping the trailer and i have to run out with a log crane to pick it up. any help is appreciated and any links directly to patch notes concerning changes to the P16 will be very helpful.

[K***boo]

There were never any changes to the P16, it was always underpowered and the fact it's RWD only doesn't help.

If you play with a gamepad check if the throttle actually gives you 100% when fully pressed, and if you're on PC apparently you can lose power if your FPS gets too high(like 100+)

[Kossatz]

Originally posted by DiluteWings:

ok, i need a little help understanding some possible changes to the P16 and after scouring the patch notes and change logs i cant find anything specific on it. i have a profile i use only for when im doing multiplayer and noticed that there were some differences in the performance since the last time i played around with the P16 (sometime around when season 7 released) i had a particular path i took to bring long logs from black river to island lake, follow the pavement and take the path down where you first find the White WS and follow that path till i got up onto the ridge line. i noticed that with the M900 motor, off road transmission in any low gear and the stock tires the engine bogs down and wont even spin the tires, indicating a lack of power not a lack of traction, last time i went up this path with this exact setup i was able to drive right up every time in low then switching to low- at the top when the tires began to spin without having to winch at all unless i ran into one of the rocks or trees, and now i basically have to winch my way up the entire way. i initially thought it may have been a change to multiplayer but i just tried the same route in single player with the exact same setup as well as the other 2 motor options and it does the same thing and i have to winch up the entire hill. did they nerf the torque on the M900 motor at some point and not put it in the patch notes? and even other paths i have driven seem to also do the same thing, engine bogs down and wont even spin the tires, even tried driving behind another player using a P16 and specifically driving thru their ruts to see if i could get the tires to spin and the only time i can get them to spin is at high speed (deep mud, high gear/auto, on a slight incline). tried using the JAT DLC tires thinking that they may have been updated, but they are the same as before and have terrible traction compared to stock tires as usual and get stuck in medium mud on flat ground and wont even make it from the garage to the log station on black river. trying to help out a player on his MP game they just restarted and im letting them use my truck for some missions till they upgrade their trucks or they already have said truck and they use theirs and in the past i have completed missions with the P16 going specific paths and im letting them know "hey i did this mission with the P16 going this way and never got stuck" and i have had about 6 missions where the P16 had to be winched more than it was driven in certain areas. trying to figure this out as we're playing with a full group of 4, and we're (mainly me) helping them 100% all maps and we finished one players Michigan map this morning and got 2 more to go, and i don't want to tell them to use the P16 if its not gonna work as good as it did before as im constantly getting called to help get someone unstuck from somewhere the P16 should not get stuck, particularly with the logging missions as sometime getting them unstuck they end up dumping the trailer and i have to run out with a log crane to pick it up. any help is appreciated and any links directly to patch notes concerning changes to the P16 will be very helpful.

As crazy as it may sound, after the latest patch someone found out that high FPS is leading to less performance of the engines exactly as you are describing. Capping it in-game to 60 FPS or less solves the problem. There´s a video of the guy showing the bug but I cannot recall who was it.

[bobi]

Try again with 60 fps.

[Rragar]

I used the P16 just a couple of days ago to haul heavy logs. I did not notice any changes. I test torque along my path since I do the hill climb at Black River (from the logging area) in High Gear. It's a bit finnicky about the High Gear on that spot and I know that it fails if I don't get the timing or the steering correctly. It behaved as normal.

I also did the river crossing if you take the highway west from that hill, and it performed as it always does.

[Kossatz]

Originally posted by Rragar:

I used the P16 just a couple of days ago to haul heavy logs. I did not notice any changes. I test torque along my path since I do the hill climb at Black River (from the logging area) in High Gear. It's a bit finnicky about the High Gear on that spot and I know that it fails if I don't get the timing or the steering correctly. It behaved as normal.

I also did the river crossing if you take the highway west from that hill, and it performed as it always does.

Could it be that you are already running the game at 60 FPS? (like me). Hence, I haven´t noticed any change here either.

[Beast of War]

I have not seen any change in the P16, but i am familiar with extremely heavy trucks not wanting to move in A1 in some circumstances. Simply switching to L is the answer in that case.

I cannot say FPS has anything to do with it, my 3440x1440 UWQHD screen does not allow my RTX 3060 to go above 60 fps anyway.

[DiluteWings]

the thing was that in L+, L, or L- it wasnt moving or spinning the tires, usually just switching to L would cause the tires to at least spin

[Kossatz]

Found it. It was shown by NProvince:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEzrLPwNVc

Pretty crazy.

p.s. skip to 9min if you want.

[Rragar]

Originally posted by Kossatz:

Originally posted by Rragar:

I used the P16 just a couple of days ago to haul heavy logs. I did not notice any changes. I test torque along my path since I do the hill climb at Black River (from the logging area) in High Gear. It's a bit finnicky about the High Gear on that spot and I know that it fails if I don't get the timing or the steering correctly. It behaved as normal.

I also did the river crossing if you take the highway west from that hill, and it performed as it always does.

Could it be that you are already running the game at 60 FPS? (like me). Hence, I haven´t noticed any change here either.

I don't have it capped at 60, but I'm about to run a test to check the fps. I don't know if other settings could be related, I disabled FXAA (can't stand that blurry abomination in any game), motion blur, film grain, and sharpening.

Everything else is enabled and set to Ultra. Resolution is 1920x1080, I'm running on a RTX 2070 Super Max-P (MXM modular laptop card). Don't know if this could be relevant somehow.

[Rragar]

Average FPS was around 80. Low peaks were in the mid 60s, high peaks were in the 120s.

Didn't detect anomalous behavior when testing with and without the framerate limiter, but since my average stable framerate is 80-ish, maybe the threshold is small enough that I don't notice it.

[Rragar]

Originally posted by DiluteWings:

the thing was that in L+, L, or L- it wasnt moving or spinning the tires, usually just switching to L would cause the tires to at least spin

Did you by any chance swap gearboxes on your P16?

I'm asking because out of the two gearboxes that have L+ and L-, the Fine-Tune one has fewer gears than the other option (I forgot its name, I think it's the advanced one?).

I've noticed that the number of gears often changes overall performance and responsiveness (no idea how the gearing ratios are set up though).

[bobi]

We can see from that one video that whatever the FPS was (over 60, but what exactly, dont remember) the vehicle struggles. Now my thought here is that

1. is this game's tick / poll rate related (directly or indirectly)
2. can a clear FPS threshold be known with, for example, something to do with weight+torque+speed+distance traveled -aligned interface.

I've been thinking of building something to do with torque+speed+distance (or to that direction) and I want to find out where at exactly FPS ♥♥♥♥♥ up the game, or if this is somekind of linear or logarithmic dive into [deeper] ♥♥♥♥ up.

"Although not a direct measurement, observing a vehicle’s acceleration performance and its behavior when climbing or towing can give indirect indications of torque. Torque can often be inferred from how quickly a vehicle accelerates, especially from a standstill, as it relates to the force applied to the wheels at low speeds. The quicker and more forceful the launch, the higher the torque in action."

Could also access game memory and modify torque (or torque associated modifiers) to see what kind of relationship torque / torque associated mofidiers have with FPS.