Let’s talk about map changes

[eitan]

Hi Groundbreakers,

We’re seeing lots of complaints here about our choice to break up the map, and how it makes the world feel smaller. We understand where those complaints are coming from, so I’d like to take a moment to explain the decision process behind this change. Maybe you’ll still disagree with the decision, but at least you’ll understand why we did it.

We made the change for several reasons:

• As a narrative game, we wanted to add more story. We do this by adding more locations of interest with story triggers tied to them. We can’t add these to an existing map, as it would break saves. So every time we want to add story we need to make more map, which is much easier if we can add new levels
  
• The open world design heavily discouraged most players from building outside of the Victor zone due to a very high bar to connect remote bases. That’s not to say there weren’t players who did, but by and large everyone made Victor their home base and the open world design effectively made it harder and harder to expand. By switching to the elevator format, players are encouraged to make large factories in different locations, and try different set ups, and it makes expansion easier. With the elevator’s level split up, we have been able to get the automation gameplay to synergize with exploration rather than compete against it.
  
• Interest in Techtonica had waned, and we needed to attract new players. Behemoths like Factorio and Satisfactory exist, so we wanted to entice players with different automation challenges to help differentiate us. We felt that the design around a central bus (the elevator) was interesting and different, and we liked the gameplay that came along with that.
  
• Our active player count had dropped off, and we felt that a fresh new challenge would help bring old players back.
  
• We had additional complaints, like getting lost in the world and performance gripes, that splitting up the map into different levels helped with.

The first levels in particular do feel small, we get that, they’ve been reworked to serve as more of a tutorial area. However later on the levels really open up in the mid and late game.

We knew that there would be some blowback here but we felt it was worth making the change because of all the other benefits we would get. New players wouldn’t notice and would probably like it, and we hoped old players who had exhausted the content would enjoy the new challenge.

We really feel strongly that 1.0 is much more fun than the old versions (and early testing confirmed this). For those of you reading this with an open mind, we ask that you try out 1.0 and see how you like it. If you can’t get past this change then we’re sorry to have disappointed you. I just posted here how to access 0.5, so you can play that.

Thanks for reading and understanding where we’re coming from.

[eitan]

I'll hang out in this thread and respond as I can

[Tommyk]

Thank you for the 0.5 beta branch!
Downloading while I write this... 95%...
so I am looking forward playing some old school techtonika soon

[Nin]

I hadn't bought your game yet, was reading the reviews and then i saw your post. I'm buying the game just because of this post. the transparency and honesty is something lacking these days. I look forward to seeing what you do past 1.0

[Heroes of the Greeks]

Is there perhaps a later update option for players to choose from? If want to have a big map, or the elevator? That would be great, it leaves options for both.

[KADELUXE]

Originally posted by Nin:

I hadn't bought your game yet, was reading the reviews and then i saw your post. I'm buying the game just because of this post. the transparency and honesty is something lacking these days. I look forward to seeing what you do past 1.0

There is no "past 1.0" buddy

[eitan]

Originally posted by Heroes of the Greeks:

Is there perhaps a later update option for players to choose from? If want to have a big map, or the elevator? That would be great, it leaves options for both.

If you want one big map with no elevator, play the legacy version. If you want the elevator (which we recommend), play 1.0. You can switch between the two freely.

[ArtyD42]

Originally posted by KADELUXE:

There is no "past 1.0" buddy

Sure there's past 1.0. Even World of Warcraft isn't 1.0 anymore and you should be happy all the bug fixes and exploits were removed from it. Vanilla there isn't even 1.0.

[RyuKajiya]

I have to say I like the change. Logistics on large map was one thing that I found very frustrating, so having the option to just send stuff to the elevator and put a factory on another level is a nice design.
Have some issues with other stuff like pushing you into the laser tag thing even if you are not interested in that at all.

One thing to consider here is that negativ feedback might look big because humans tend to be vocal more when they dislike something. So a bunch of people coming here and saying they don't like it does not mean that the majority of the playerbase dislikes it because those that actually like it hardly come here and write that. So you only have one side of the metric.
You mentioned Satisfactory and there you could see the effect. In some discussions and on youtube videos talking about features sometimes you could see a lot of negative feedback. But they have an issue tracking side where they also made some polls to see what people really think about a feature and there it looked much different since that was the main point where players gave feedback.
One thing is probably wait till some streamers start a playthrough and watch their response to the changes and chat in their streams. Usually a good way to get some feedback from different sources. Also there are some that are pretty good at analysing game mechanics like Splattercat.

[eitan]

Originally posted by RyuKajiya:

I have to say I like the change. Logistics on large map was one thing that I found very frustrating, so having the option to just send stuff to the elevator and put a factory on another level is a nice design.
Have some issues with other stuff like pushing you into the laser tag thing even if you are not interested in that at all.

One thing to consider here is that negativ feedback might look big because humans tend to be vocal more when they dislike something. So a bunch of people coming here and saying they don't like it does not mean that the majority of the playerbase dislikes it because those that actually like it hardly come here and write that. So you only have one side of the metric.
You mentioned Satisfactory and there you could see the effect. In some discussions and on youtube videos talking about features sometimes you could see a lot of negative feedback. But they have an issue tracking side where they also made some polls to see what people really think about a feature and there it looked much different since that was the main point where players gave feedback.
One thing is probably wait till some streamers start a playthrough and watch their response to the changes and chat in their streams. Usually a good way to get some feedback from different sources. Also there are some that are pretty good at analysing game mechanics like Splattercat.

We're so glad to hear that you like the change! Prior to launch testing was extremely positive, and we see a ton of people who like the changes on our discord. But there's a very vocal group of people here who are upset and we don't want to ignore them either, they're part of the community too. That's why we have posted the 0.5 branch, so they can keep gaming on the version that they like.

[Mmm]

I like this map design, gives some change from usual "one big map".

[KADELUXE]

Originally posted by ArtyD42:

Originally posted by KADELUXE:

There is no "past 1.0" buddy

Sure there's past 1.0. Even World of Warcraft isn't 1.0 anymore and you should be happy all the bug fixes and exploits were removed from it. Vanilla there isn't even 1.0.

Dude they said it's a complete game. It's not a live service lol
You think they jumped from 0.5 to 1.0 to continue working on it? 🤣

[AngryGiant]

I don't mind the map change. I understand why it was done. I just wish it was shown before the 1.0 release either through the test cave / beta branch or dev diaries. Don't just make a major change to the map without letting players know. I think that is where some of the frustration from the player base comes from is that they feel they weren't involved and felt surprised.

Player numbers were dropping with the release of Satisfactory 1.0 and the Factorio Expansion. That is not surprising. As an indy studio it's never a good idea to directly compare / compete with the behemoths. Find your niche and stick to it. The niche was somewhere in the middle between the two and a much more unique story. You have a handmade map with non-infinite resources. The story was the icing on the cake. The idea of levels would have been accepted if the old map wasn't split up to do it. The narrative even pushed towards that with the elevator pre-1.0.

Another thing that frustrated the people was that the jump to 1.0 broke saves and it wasn't immediately apparent that the old version would be available. When you look at games that frequently break saves with big updates or expansions they usually keep several versions back so people can continue those saves (most Paradox titles as an example). I appreciate that it was made available through a code on steam. but when just looking at beta branches it wasn't shown and not everyone wants to come to the steam discussions.

I liked the game before. I like the game now. I also understand the frustration that a perceived lack of communication caused. I still consider you to be "good devs" through early access. I've seen many games with a lot of promise go down the drain when money dries up. You finished your game. Whether that was the completion of the original vision or not. Next time I hope that if the vision changes, that it is communicated to the players that enjoy and love your creation.

[Jared]

I once considered them "good devs" to, how sadly wrong I was. Well we all make mistakes and that assumption was my error, one in which I won't be repeating.

[|||||||||||]

Ngl i hate map changes. I wish there was just a new map (or two) AFTER the "old" elevator. Breaking old map into chunks feels so unnesessary. For example i dont like the idea of building on multiple floors. Sure i might funnel resources from other floors if i ever ran out, but thats about it. I'd like all of my production to be on a single floor and im sure im not alone in this. So there is a huge amount of buildable area out there on other levels which im no longer interested in. Such a waste.

PS: 2 floors feels underwhelming. 3 floors is just fine. 4 floors is maybe a bit unnesessary. 5 floors is definately too much. 16 ducking floors is ELEVATOR SIMULATOR.

[Blaze1961]

People inherently don't like change and are more vocal when it comes to things they don't like, I for one like the new map.

When I buy EA (Early Access) titles I always expect world wipes and major changes...even unforeseen ones. Change is the chance people take when buying EA. It's pretty easy...If you don't like change don't buy EA.