Developer discussion regarding using Unity physics games online (link)

[Tr3m0r]

I found this to be a good read from a very humble single developer who also is creating a game. Now this is what I call community engagement and a true "small indy studio." For those that don't read his blog, he basically says Unity physics based games are a nightmare and just not feasible to be hosted online for multiplayer. He says it is not his area of expertise but has consulted with other developers. Honestly, it's pretty clear the "small" 60+ members of SCI working on this game just lack the humility to admit where they went wrong in this and to course correct. Likely Unreal 5 is the better game engine for a game like this.

It would be another thing if they actually engaged the community and had round table discussions that were genuinely tied to this passionate community but they hate this community. Varus is thin skinned and they created an echo chamber on discord and reddit that only promoted toxic positive comments and narratives and their whole team would down vote and down comment any dissenting view points. It's quite sad. Anyways, I doubt online gets much better and they clearly could have implemented anti-cheats and servers from day one with the resources Valve give them with VAC and Unity has with dedicated servers. But with how bad online play is with Unity Physics based games, that's likely the reason they didn't invest money into online and are just trying to push this game into mass market to cash out.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1000360/discussions/0/6741370072193236182/

[76561198391157283]

You clearly don't know what you're even talking about soy boy. Leave it to the devs.

[Darth NVious]

Can the Undisputed files be converted/migrated over to Unreal Engine? And if it was ever even possible, would it make the game more stable, consistent and reliable for online multiplayer?

[Tr3m0r]

Originally posted by Havagat:

Can the Undisputed files be converted/migrated over to Unreal Engine? And if it was ever even possible, would it make the game more stable, consistent and reliable for online multiplayer?

I don't think so. The developing languages are similar but different as Unity uses C# and UE 5.2 is C++. I'd imagine they weighed the pros/cons early on and went with the easier to code for engine with C# and Unity. For all intents and purposes Unity is a fine engine but everywhere I have read talks about online problems with desync with Unity simulation based physics games. It's a bummer the devs spoke so often of the benefits of their "physics based combat" but didn't factor in the online compatibility.

[SugarKaneNosey]

Originally posted by SugarKaneNosey:

Originally posted by Havagat:

Can the Undisputed files be converted/migrated over to Unreal Engine? And if it was ever even possible, would it make the game more stable, consistent and reliable for online multiplayer?

No not in entirety, it is going to require re coding to rebuild in UE5 they have bolloxed it and the sooner they realise this the sooner they can rebuild the game with unreal

[SugarKaneNosey]

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

Originally posted by Havagat:

Can the Undisputed files be converted/migrated over to Unreal Engine? And if it was ever even possible, would it make the game more stable, consistent and reliable for online multiplayer?

I don't think so. The developing languages are similar but different as Unity uses C# and UE 5.2 is C++. I'd imagine they weighed the pros/cons early on and went with the easier to code for engine with C# and Unity. For all intents and purposes Unity is a fine engine but everywhere I have read talks about online problems with desync with Unity simulation based physics games. It's a bummer the devs spoke so often of the benefits of their "physics based combat" but didn't factor in the online compatibility.

Unity is ok but there is a reason why there are only a handful of actual games planned for release with Multiplayer being made in it

[Darth NVious]

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

Originally posted by Havagat:

Can the Undisputed files be converted/migrated over to Unreal Engine? And if it was ever even possible, would it make the game more stable, consistent and reliable for online multiplayer?

I don't think so. The developing languages are similar but different as Unity uses C# and UE 5.2 is C++. I'd imagine they weighed the pros/cons early on and went with the easier to code for engine with C# and Unity. For all intents and purposes Unity is a fine engine but everywhere I have read talks about online problems with desync with Unity simulation based physics games. It's a bummer the devs spoke so often of the benefits of their "physics based combat" but didn't factor in the online compatibility.

They still have the game's base assets and resources (except for perhaps Dmitry Bivol which they may have accidentally deleted). They could just convert 1:1 the existing sourcecode or translate it from ground up to work in Unreal Engine.

[SugarKaneNosey]

Originally posted by Havagat:

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

I don't think so. The developing languages are similar but different as Unity uses C# and UE 5.2 is C++. I'd imagine they weighed the pros/cons early on and went with the easier to code for engine with C# and Unity. For all intents and purposes Unity is a fine engine but everywhere I have read talks about online problems with desync with Unity simulation based physics games. It's a bummer the devs spoke so often of the benefits of their "physics based combat" but didn't factor in the online compatibility.

They still have the game's base assets and resources (except for perhaps Dmitry Bivol which they may have accidentally deleted). They could just convert 1:1 the existing sourcecode or translate it from ground up to work in Unreal Engine.

12 months if they are medium devs, 6 months if they are shxt hot

[SugarKaneNosey]

At this point I believe the game will continue to die further and further down the rabbit hole it will go

[Tyndareus]

Originally posted by Havagat:

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

I don't think so. The developing languages are similar but different as Unity uses C# and UE 5.2 is C++. I'd imagine they weighed the pros/cons early on and went with the easier to code for engine with C# and Unity. For all intents and purposes Unity is a fine engine but everywhere I have read talks about online problems with desync with Unity simulation based physics games. It's a bummer the devs spoke so often of the benefits of their "physics based combat" but didn't factor in the online compatibility.

They still have the game's base assets and resources (except for perhaps Dmitry Bivol which they may have accidentally deleted). They could just convert 1:1 the existing sourcecode or translate it from ground up to work in Unreal Engine.

Well, they may be similar but don't expect a C# developer to be able to do anywhere close to half of what they could do but in C++.
The asset may not be deleted, they may no longer have the license.

Given SCI is using Unity; an engine which is made for small games, startup developers or cheap labour... I don't think they'd bring this game to UE5 within 3 years, they need to learn a lot.
Your original post talks about physics based games in Unity, has he actually asked anyone of decent standing? Look at Biped; thats custom physics and IK with multiplayer in Unity - using old unity networking I will add.
Physics is a result of a math calculation; you replicate the calculation and the physics is the same across all. When you start throwing in determinism and assuming what something should be, thats when it becomes "I CANT DO IT".
If you want an easier networkable physics game you should use ECS and havok, havok has some built up grounds for networking, and ECS is better when it comes to the data.

Looking at the game, the physics is custom and IK is custom (usually is if you want a solver anyway). If it used anything from Unity it would be more difficult to network correctly because the assumed calculation is mostly handled elsewhere.
Then you know outgoing packets is quite a lot and quite often, not sure where its going at least not without converting the packet; that place its going might be throttling it if its sending too often.

[aktive80]

Originally posted by lSlS Member:

You clearly don't know what you're even talking about soy boy. Leave it to the devs.

This guy has been bulleid... LMAO

[SugarKaneNosey]

Originally posted by Tyndareus:

Originally posted by Havagat:

They still have the game's base assets and resources (except for perhaps Dmitry Bivol which they may have accidentally deleted). They could just convert 1:1 the existing sourcecode or translate it from ground up to work in Unreal Engine.

Well, they may be similar but don't expect a C# developer to be able to do anywhere close to half of what they could do but in C++.
The asset may not be deleted, they may no longer have the license.

Given SCI is using Unity; an engine which is made for small games, startup developers or cheap labour... I don't think they'd bring this game to UE5 within 3 years, they need to learn a lot.
Your original post talks about physics based games in Unity, has he actually asked anyone of decent standing? Look at Biped; thats custom physics and IK with multiplayer in Unity - using old unity networking I will add.
Physics is a result of a math calculation; you replicate the calculation and the physics is the same across all. When you start throwing in determinism and assuming what something should be, thats when it becomes "I CANT DO IT".
If you want an easier networkable physics game you should use ECS and havok, havok has some built up grounds for networking, and ECS is better when it comes to the data.

Looking at the game, the physics is custom and IK is custom (usually is if you want a solver anyway). If it used anything from Unity it would be more difficult to network correctly because the assumed calculation is mostly handled elsewhere.
Then you know outgoing packets is quite a lot and quite often, not sure where its going at least not without converting the packet; that place its going might be throttling it if its sending too often.

Unreal is EASY any Csharp coder would easily pick up the blue printing system in unreal within a few short weeks, this game has two options, change engine, or Death and destruction.

Option c, Take some of the money the game made, employ a c++ dev who knows Unreal and stop having swanky holidays like you already made it lol

[Vyser]

Originally posted by Tyndareus:

Originally posted by Havagat:

They still have the game's base assets and resources (except for perhaps Dmitry Bivol which they may have accidentally deleted). They could just convert 1:1 the existing sourcecode or translate it from ground up to work in Unreal Engine.

Well, they may be similar but don't expect a C# developer to be able to do anywhere close to half of what they could do but in C++.
The asset may not be deleted, they may no longer have the license.

Given SCI is using Unity; an engine which is made for small games, startup developers or cheap labour... I don't think they'd bring this game to UE5 within 3 years, they need to learn a lot.
Your original post talks about physics based games in Unity, has he actually asked anyone of decent standing? Look at Biped; thats custom physics and IK with multiplayer in Unity - using old unity networking I will add.
Physics is a result of a math calculation; you replicate the calculation and the physics is the same across all. When you start throwing in determinism and assuming what something should be, thats when it becomes "I CANT DO IT".
If you want an easier networkable physics game you should use ECS and havok, havok has some built up grounds for networking, and ECS is better when it comes to the data.

Looking at the game, the physics is custom and IK is custom (usually is if you want a solver anyway). If it used anything from Unity it would be more difficult to network correctly because the assumed calculation is mostly handled elsewhere.
Then you know outgoing packets is quite a lot and quite often, not sure where its going at least not without converting the packet; that place its going might be throttling it if its sending too often.

I believe Amazon Web Services handles packets for Unity.

[Darth NVious]

I have a suspicion that...

...SCI is still working heavily on ESBC.

I think that the core members of SCI are not as dumb as people here in the forums think; and that they actually managed to figure out the very same points raised by Vyser quite early on during development; prompting them to re-brand this particular product that we currently have on Steam to "Undisputed". They simply realized that the Online aspect for this particular title just cannot realistically achieve their initial goals and projections for the original idea of ESBC (due to limitations of the Unity engine).

This now leaves me to ponder as to whether or not an Unreal Engine based version for this game "ESBC" is still on the works. Come to think of it, it takes them an awful lot of time (3+ months) to release supposedly minor tweaks and fixes. It just does not make much sense. Thus I am inclined to speculate further that probably a huge amount of time and effort is poured into this secret WIP "ESBC" project, which they might still eventually release at a much much later date.

So that's that. For now, just consider this Undisputed game that we have as the prototype Unity-based version for the actual official-release, superior quality product Unreal Engine-based ESBC.

I just hope that Undisputed will still become a highly satisfactory product if even just for its Offline utility. Imagine a day when Undisputed becomes part of EVO where the best players in the world get to compete for fame/notoriety.

Until then, enjoy the game and keep your guard up.

[Tr3m0r]

Originally posted by Havagat:

I have a suspicion that...

...SCI is still working heavily on ESBC.

I think that the core members of SCI are not as dumb as people here in the forums think; and that they actually managed to figure out the very same points raised by Vyser quite early on during development; prompting them to re-brand this particular product that we currently have on Steam to "Undisputed". They simply realized that the Online aspect for this particular title just cannot realistically achieve their initial goals and projections for the original idea of ESBC (due to limitations of the Unity engine).

This now leaves me to ponder as to whether or not an Unreal Engine based version for this game "ESBC" is still on the works. Come to think of it, it takes them an awful lot of time (3+ months) to release supposedly minor tweaks and fixes. It just does not make much sense. Thus I am inclined to speculate further that probably a huge amount of time and effort is poured into this secret WIP "ESBC" project, which they might still eventually release at a much much later date.

So that's that. For now, just consider this Undisputed game that we have as the prototype Unity-based version for the actual official-release, superior quality product Unreal Engine-based ESBC.

I just hope that Undisputed will still become a highly satisfactory product if even just for its Offline utility. Imagine a day when Undisputed becomes part of EVO where the best players in the world get to compete for fame/notoriety.

Until then, enjoy the game and keep your guard up.

If that is the case how would that not open up a class action lawsuit? A company decides prerelease to rebrand and sell a vision they know isn’t achievable, take millions of dolllars from ignorant customers and then later on sell us the game that we thought we already purchased! No way.

I realize the gaming industry is grimy but there are some protections in place. I hope they aren’t that stupid to do what you just suggested as that is spitting in the entire communities face. I don’t expect much from them anymore given the lack of transparency already existing and how day one issues of desync, lack of servers and anti cheat continue to go unaddressed, but they promise they are working on them for this specific title. I have to believe (or I’m blindly choosing to believe) they will keep their word on making online more playable and adding the anti cheat they say they will do. I do agree with you that they know more than they lead on but I don’t think it’s been to their benefit and they are s bit tone deaf to the community and how to properly engage it. Lots of rookie mistakes and terrible online “top five” lame kos validate that.

[Darth NVious]

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

Originally posted by Havagat:

I have a suspicion that...

...SCI is still working heavily on ESBC.

I think that the core members of SCI are not as dumb as people here in the forums think; and that they actually managed to figure out the very same points raised by Vyser quite early on during development; prompting them to re-brand this particular product that we currently have on Steam to "Undisputed". They simply realized that the Online aspect for this particular title just cannot realistically achieve their initial goals and projections for the original idea of ESBC (due to limitations of the Unity engine).

This now leaves me to ponder as to whether or not an Unreal Engine based version for this game "ESBC" is still on the works. Come to think of it, it takes them an awful lot of time (3+ months) to release supposedly minor tweaks and fixes. It just does not make much sense. Thus I am inclined to speculate further that probably a huge amount of time and effort is poured into this secret WIP "ESBC" project, which they might still eventually release at a much much later date.

So that's that. For now, just consider this Undisputed game that we have as the prototype Unity-based version for the actual official-release, superior quality product Unreal Engine-based ESBC.

I just hope that Undisputed will still become a highly satisfactory product if even just for its Offline utility. Imagine a day when Undisputed becomes part of EVO where the best players in the world get to compete for fame/notoriety.

Until then, enjoy the game and keep your guard up.

If that is the case how would that not open up a class action lawsuit? A company decides prerelease to rebrand and sell a vision they know isn’t achievable, take millions of dolllars from ignorant customers and then later on sell us the game that we thought we already purchased! No way.

I realize the gaming industry is grimy but there are some protections in place. I hope they aren’t that stupid to do what you just suggested as that is spitting in the entire communities face. I don’t expect much from them anymore given the lack of transparency already existing and how day one issues of desync, lack of servers and anti cheat continue to go unaddressed, but they promise they are working on them for this specific title. I have to believe (or I’m blindly choosing to believe) they will keep their word on making online more playable and adding the anti cheat they say they will do. I do agree with you that they know more than they lead on but I don’t think it’s been to their benefit and they are s bit tone deaf to the community and how to properly engage it. Lots of rookie mistakes and terrible online “top five” lame kos validate that.

And who's going to sue them? You? As far as I know, this game is not titled "ESBC".