why can card destruction deck be used to deck someone out but not hand destruction?

[silvertalon215]

Card Destruction and Morphing Jar can be used if the opponent has less in the deck than in their hand but not Hand Destruction or Trickstar Reincarnation? Can someone explain why that is? They are all pretty much the same effect.

[Juno Brier]

That's a really good question.

[Raven]

Because hand destruction specifies 2 exactly. If they have 2 you CAN deck them out. However if they have 1 card left, you can't activate hand destruction

edit: I think morphing jar is BKSS

[Silyon]

This is a complicated nuance, so lets look at Card Destruction and Hand Destruction specifically:

Originally posted by Card Destruction:

Both players discard as many cards as possible from their hands, then each player draws the same number of cards they discarded.

Originally posted by Hand Destruction:

Each player sends 2 cards from their hand to the GY, then draws 2 cards.

The main difference between the two is that Hand Destruction specifies a specific number, while Card Destruction calculates the number to draw as the effect is resolving. You are not allowed to activate a card that you know you cannot resolve, and the number of cards in each player's deck is considered public knowledge. Thus you cannot activate Hand Destruction if the specific number of cards it requires both players to draw do not exist in the deck. However Card destruction only "Knows" how many cards should be drawn when the effect resolves, after activation, and therefore attempts to resolve as best it can.

This particular nuance only applies to effects that specifically "Draw" cards and is intended to prevent self-deckouts by preventing the activation of cards that would result in the activating player's game loss. A similar ruling applies to paying LP costs while below that amount of LP, you are not allowed to pay the cost because you don't have the required amount.

[Papa Shekels]

I am actually going through asking some judges/ruling nuts about this, because there is no clear reasoning. It's not about a specified amount of cards, because then you WOULD be able to deck out the opponent with trickstar reincarnation since card destruction works. It's not about targeting a specific player, because then hand destruction should be able to deck out just like morphing jar.

So far, the best answer I have gotten is "personally i think konami doesnt give a ♥♥♥♥ about making this consistent because mill is so rare so they only rule it whe they get bored or when a card is particularly annoying"

:)

[Raven]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

I am actually going through asking some judges/ruling nuts about this, because there is no clear reasoning. It's not about a specified amount of cards, because then you WOULD be able to deck out the opponent with trickstar reincarnation since card destruction works. It's not about targeting a specific player, because then hand destruction should be able to deck out just like morphing jar.

So far, the best answer I have gotten is "personally i think konami doesnt give a ♥♥♥♥ about making this consistent because mill is so rare so they only rule it whe they get bored or when a card is particularly annoying"

:)

That's why I said morphing jar is a BKSS ruling :P Those are still grandfathered in until we get an errata

[Juno Brier]

Morphing Jar clearly doesn't care if you can't draw. Does it look like it has any mercy?

[Soji]

i was curious at one point about this a few years ago and it really does seem it's just 'because konami said so'