Droll & Lock Bird needs a ban

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Too powerful due to power creep, ban it please. Utterly broken card.

[MeowMeow]

Publicado originalmente por itzRiceKrispies:

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

bro, the problem is usually those oprresive deck are the ones that using those droll. Like current fiendsmith line can play thru it easily, and then they droll u on top of that.

its the maxx-C problem all over again. maxx-c on paper sounds good to stop those combo heavy deck. Only to ends up being used by them instead any stop any of ur plays.
Droll is essesially the same.
I mostly play rouge deck, not once i prefer droll oveer ash/ imperm. Get ash? fine, i still have 2 more card in hand to search my stuff, drolled? aight gg. my hand is triple tactic and POT.

Really? So ur argument is that Droll needs to be banned cause the best decks in the game right now can play thru it easily? Well fun fact. Droll usage will drop to nothing if that is the case, cause why would Fiendsmith run it if it is no good against the best?

And if u think for even a second that any version of Fiendsmith Snake/Yubel or whatever Tenpai is doing right now can't win without Droll, then boy do I have a very lucrative business venture to sell u. I promise its on the up and up, but I just need investors. Cheap too. Just need 5,000$ for start-up funds & by the end of the next quarter u will be raking in 3 times that. Interested?

??? no, my point is that droll hurt the rouge deck more than the meta deck.

What the ♥♥♥♥ are u talking about? did u even read what i wrote? only fiendsmith lines can play thru droll easily now, the rest of meta deck engine like AZ yubel, snake eyes got shutdown by it.

What if u play rouge deck? just top left surrender button if they droll u. Also stop bringing tenpai into conversation, that piece of garbage deserve more ban like runick treatment. If runick 2 card starter non game is not fine, why would anyone care about 1 card OTK ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Terminal Desolation]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

??? no, my point is that droll hurt the rouge deck more than the meta deck.

counterpoint: so does almost every hand trap

very, very few hand traps hit the rogue decks less than the meta decks, so I'm not sure I buy the "it makes rogue worse thus we must ban it" argument cuz if that's the case we're gonna be banning a looooooooooooot of cards

[itzRiceKrispies]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Publicado originalmente por itzRiceKrispies:

Really? So ur argument is that Droll needs to be banned cause the best decks in the game right now can play thru it easily? Well fun fact. Droll usage will drop to nothing if that is the case, cause why would Fiendsmith run it if it is no good against the best?

And if u think for even a second that any version of Fiendsmith Snake/Yubel or whatever Tenpai is doing right now can't win without Droll, then boy do I have a very lucrative business venture to sell u. I promise its on the up and up, but I just need investors. Cheap too. Just need 5,000$ for start-up funds & by the end of the next quarter u will be raking in 3 times that. Interested?

??? no, my point is that droll hurt the rouge deck more than the meta deck.

What the ♥♥♥♥ are u talking about? did u even read what i wrote? only fiendsmith lines can play thru droll easily now, the rest of meta deck engine like AZ yubel, snake eyes got shutdown by it.

What if u play rouge deck? just top left surrender button if they droll u. Also stop bringing tenpai into conversation, that piece of garbage deserve more ban like runick treatment. If runick 2 card starter non game is not fine, why would anyone care about 1 card OTK ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

What am I talking about. What are u talking about? U want a card that is already kind of niche banned cause it hurts weaker decks, but doesn't hurt the top decks, who are barely even running it cause they are more concerned about beating the other top decks in the first place.

I wish some of y'all would actually stop and think for 5 mins about the things u are actually saying. Like I said Meow and u conveniently ignored; the powerhouse Fiendsmith decks don't need Droll to beat the rogue decks. They can already do that.

It will literally be a reapeat on YCS Indy all over again. Where they banned the so called oppressive Baronne De Fleur and Borreload Savage and it literally did nothing. If u banned Droll today then I promise next week, the same decks are still going to be top of tier one.

The strongest decks are the strongest not because of Droll & Lock Bird. As annoying as that damn thing is it is far from the biggest problem card among the hand traps. Cancer is actually A LOT worse and more oppressive then Droll is. It also sees a ton more play.

Late edit: Also just to point this out, but if u Droll Engraver then the Fiendsmith can't even use Tract to grab Lurie and by extension can't combo off. So no Fiendsmith isn't able to freely play through it.

[TormentedSalad]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Publicado originalmente por TormentedSalad:

Marincess doesn't lose to droll some hands might but given they are likely being hit with drill after they search battle ocean they still hit Argonaut pretty consistently droll is an extremely frustrating card but it only ultimately sees play when some high power combo deck loses to it

No no, my point even those less combo heavy deck sometimes lose to it, like even yubel ends on a joke board if u droll them, and they dont have lotus on hand.
marincess couldnt end with battle ocean protection argonoat ending most of the time if u droll them + 1 any handtrap like ash or imperm, which is the main issue.
They usually end on great reef bubble if u imperm them, and with droll its enough to shut u down without getting ur marincess wave. U usually search 2-3 card in marincess, and stopping one is enough to make their board a joke.

To end on argonaut u need a very good hand that can play against ash/ imperm most of the time. drolling them on first search is usually enough to make them not have marincess wave.

Like no way droll is healty if even deck that only do 2-3 search got their board shutdown.

i think u need to read my point previously that some that that "looks like" can play thru droll is usually because they alrd have the main piece in hand. Droll pretty much shutdown 1/4 of ur card that usually search u important card.
Hell who want to go 2nd against established board only them to droll u and now u cant use triple tactic that u just drew.

Weaker decks losing to it isn't relevant thats what you are not understanding those decks arn't why people play Droll if a format consists of only decks that search 1-3 times in a turn then people won't play it because its not worth it, people play Droll if they expect most of their games to be vs a combo deck like SHS that gets their ass blasted by it.

[Papa Shekels]

Publicado originalmente por TormentedSalad:

Weaker decks losing to it isn't relevant thats what you are not understanding those decks arn't why people play Droll if a format consists of only decks that search 1-3 times in a turn then people won't play it because its not worth it, people play Droll if they expect most of their games to be vs a combo deck like SHS that gets their ass blasted by it.

I have been maining it in my paper deck for close to a year now and have almost never ended up siding it out. It kills almost every deck to some degree, and at worst insulates you against non-engine like thrust. I have no idea why people aren't playing it in MD as much. The situation at my locals (which is very casual btw, yesterday had I think only 2 maliss players) is that everybody plays it and expects to see it because it's stupid not to, but we often talk about hoping it gets banned so we can stop using it.

At this point droll is reaching the same level of problematic as maxx "C", it used to be a cool design to put a stop to ridiculous decks but has grown far too oppressive for the pace of the current game. The fact that new decks are starting to ignore droll by placing directly from the deck is a sign of how big of a problem it is. The fact that it stops degenerate decks is now more of a convenient bonus to its primary role of ending normal decks' turns

[Astrallight]

If Droll is gone how am i then going to stop a full combo White forest player from drawing 10+ cards out of nothing ?

[G3]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Non combo heavy also died to droll alot.
Like literally almost any rogue deck that isnt stun died to droll.
cyber dragon, dark magician, exodia, sky striker, marincess, trickstar, flowndereeze (but ♥♥♥♥ this deck, they only viable with stun card), weather painter, ancient gear, melodius, pendulum, infernoble.
The list goes on, even some deck that fine against it like kashtira, or yubel, could get soloed by droll, if they dont open with their main combo pieces alrd.

Some of the Rogue decks you are mentioning were once the Meta. Droll came back around to stop them. Old meta decks becoming Rogue doesn't automatically make that weakness go away. Or, credit Droll as a menace to Rogue in general. Droll is format dependent. Maybe you don't have the experience to know that Droll disappears for years at a time before coming back. 2017 it was around to stop me and my Spyrals. It left and came back in 2020 to stop them again. It did nothing for the years in between.

[TormentedSalad]

Publicado originalmente por Papa Shekels:

Publicado originalmente por TormentedSalad:

Weaker decks losing to it isn't relevant thats what you are not understanding those decks arn't why people play Droll if a format consists of only decks that search 1-3 times in a turn then people won't play it because its not worth it, people play Droll if they expect most of their games to be vs a combo deck like SHS that gets their ass blasted by it.

I have been maining it in my paper deck for close to a year now and have almost never ended up siding it out. It kills almost every deck to some degree, and at worst insulates you against non-engine like thrust. I have no idea why people aren't playing it in MD as much. The situation at my locals (which is very casual btw, yesterday had I think only 2 maliss players) is that everybody plays it and expects to see it because it's stupid not to, but we often talk about hoping it gets banned so we can stop using it.

At this point droll is reaching the same level of problematic as maxx "C", it used to be a cool design to put a stop to ridiculous decks but has grown far too oppressive for the pace of the current game. The fact that new decks are starting to ignore droll by placing directly from the deck is a sign of how big of a problem it is. The fact that it stops degenerate decks is now more of a convenient bonus to its primary role of ending normal decks' turns

I mean I hate the card if it got banned tomorrow i'd be laughing every time I want to have fun Droll seems to pop up not like im all too concerned about it with my all time favourite deck being Tearlament.

[Zephyr]

Publicado originalmente por Terminal Desolation:

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

??? no, my point is that droll hurt the rouge deck more than the meta deck.

counterpoint: so does almost every hand trap

very, very few hand traps hit the rogue decks less than the meta decks, so I'm not sure I buy the "it makes rogue worse thus we must ban it" argument cuz if that's the case we're gonna be banning a looooooooooooot of cards

And most of those aforementioned cards need to be hit anyways, if a "staple" that's supposed to be a counter to meta isn't as good against meta as it is against rogue then it failed to do what it was intended for.

Most handtraps need a retrain to limit their effectiveness against rogue decks while simultaneously enhancing their ability to stop meta decks.

[e-dood]

Publicado originalmente por Zephyr:

Most handtraps need a retrain to limit their effectiveness against rogue decks while simultaneously enhancing their ability to stop meta decks.

I don't think that'd be logically possible.

[Raven]

People trying to argue against handtraps because of rogue decks, I feel like I need to remind people for the UMPTEENTH TIME; This is the yugioh OFFICIAL competitive simulator, which they hold to tournament standards (including YCS and Worlds level). It's meant to be playing the highest level of competitive play. The goal isn't about having fun with pet decks, Konami has never cared about that sort of deal. If your deck loses to droll, you need to fix your deck. If your deck loses to Ash, you need to fix your deck.

The only reason rogue decks are even remotely viable is due to the surprise nature and Bo1 format. Konami's goal is to move product, the top decks are what go to the highest point of play, that's honestly the sad reality of it.

Even rogue decks need to have some semblance of defense against the cards they lose to, its on you to use the same tools as everyone else AND learn to use them effectively AND learn to play around them. Not every game is winnable, sometimes there is bad match ups. Sometimes those bad match ups are rogue decks even. Expecting to win every game isn't feasible, but if you're losing to a single card and you refuse to change your deck to accommodate for that? That's just willful and your own problem.

edit, side note: Lots of Rogue decks make it to M1 every season. If you go look at them, you'll notice one thing they all have in common: They understand and play counter to the meta. They run the cards to protect their strategy and hit against the most popular decks of the season. That's utilizing meta properly. If droll is wrecking your deck and its currently popular in the format, you need to run the counters for it.

[MeowMeow]

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

People trying to argue against handtraps because of rogue decks, I feel like I need to remind people for the UMPTEENTH TIME; This is the yugioh OFFICIAL competitive simulator, which they hold to tournament standards (including YCS and Worlds level). It's meant to be playing the highest level of competitive play. The goal isn't about having fun with pet decks, Konami has never cared about that sort of deal. If your deck loses to droll, you need to fix your deck. If your deck loses to Ash, you need to fix your deck.

The only reason rogue decks are even remotely viable is due to the surprise nature and Bo1 format. Konami's goal is to move product, the top decks are what go to the highest point of play, that's honestly the sad reality of it.

Even rogue decks need to have some semblance of defense against the cards they lose to, its on you to use the same tools as everyone else AND learn to use them effectively AND learn to play around them. Not every game is winnable, sometimes there is bad match ups. Sometimes those bad match ups are rogue decks even. Expecting to win every game isn't feasible, but if you're losing to a single card and you refuse to change your deck to accommodate for that? That's just willful and your own problem.

edit, side note: Lots of Rogue decks make it to M1 every season. If you go look at them, you'll notice one thing they all have in common: They understand and play counter to the meta. They run the cards to protect their strategy and hit against the most popular decks of the season. That's utilizing meta properly. If droll is wrecking your deck and its currently popular in the format, you need to run the counters for it.

Mann, i got to master with pepega marincess and sky striker, and it still feel opressive. I cut all my upstart and trickstar stage to make it less punishable by droll.
But it just another dimension shifter/ maxcc problem. The card just asking for nongame most of the time.

But whatever, we have mxx C for 15 years, its what the community ask for. Oh btw mystic mine got banned for same non game reason, oh thats right, because u ♥♥♥♥♥♥ metasheep asholle hate playing against it, even tho its created same non game problem like maxx-C, droll and dimension shifter.

[e-dood]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

People trying to argue against handtraps because of rogue decks, I feel like I need to remind people for the UMPTEENTH TIME; This is the yugioh OFFICIAL competitive simulator, which they hold to tournament standards (including YCS and Worlds level). It's meant to be playing the highest level of competitive play. The goal isn't about having fun with pet decks, Konami has never cared about that sort of deal. If your deck loses to droll, you need to fix your deck. If your deck loses to Ash, you need to fix your deck.

The only reason rogue decks are even remotely viable is due to the surprise nature and Bo1 format. Konami's goal is to move product, the top decks are what go to the highest point of play, that's honestly the sad reality of it.

Even rogue decks need to have some semblance of defense against the cards they lose to, its on you to use the same tools as everyone else AND learn to use them effectively AND learn to play around them. Not every game is winnable, sometimes there is bad match ups. Sometimes those bad match ups are rogue decks even. Expecting to win every game isn't feasible, but if you're losing to a single card and you refuse to change your deck to accommodate for that? That's just willful and your own problem.

edit, side note: Lots of Rogue decks make it to M1 every season. If you go look at them, you'll notice one thing they all have in common: They understand and play counter to the meta. They run the cards to protect their strategy and hit against the most popular decks of the season. That's utilizing meta properly. If droll is wrecking your deck and its currently popular in the format, you need to run the counters for it.

Mann, i got to master with pepega marincess and sky striker, and it still feel opressive. I cut all my upstart and trickstar stage to make it less punishable by droll.
But it just another dimension shifter/ maxcc problem. The card just asking for nongame most of the time.

But whatever, we have mxx C for 15 years, its what the community ask for. Oh btw mystic mine got banned for same non game reason, oh thats right, because u ♥♥♥♥♥♥ metasheep asholle hate playing against it, even tho its created same non game problem like maxx-C, droll and dimension shifter.

We going to ignore that Maxx C is one of the most requested bans?

[MeowMeow]

Publicado originalmente por e-dood:

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Mann, i got to master with pepega marincess and sky striker, and it still feel opressive. I cut all my upstart and trickstar stage to make it less punishable by droll.
But it just another dimension shifter/ maxcc problem. The card just asking for nongame most of the time.

But whatever, we have mxx C for 15 years, its what the community ask for. Oh btw mystic mine got banned for same non game reason, oh thats right, because u ♥♥♥♥♥♥ metasheep asholle hate playing against it, even tho its created same non game problem like maxx-C, droll and dimension shifter.

We going to ignore that Maxx C is one of the most requested bans?

no, im just saying u guys deserve maxx c ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, with all those pepega takes.

[76561199378662608]

Rarely got Drolled, don't care not a threat.