Droll & Lock Bird needs a ban

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Too powerful due to power creep, ban it please. Utterly broken card.

[Pastor Shotty McBangJump]

I mean, if we're talking about banning Dimension Shifter and/or Artifact Lancea right now in the TCG due to how it just completely hoses a lot of decks that people like playing, I feel like banning Droll isn't out of the question.

[Papa Shekels]

Publicado originalmente por Pastor Shotty McBangJump:

I mean, if we're talking about banning Dimension Shifter and/or Artifact Lancea right now in the TCG due to how it just completely hoses a lot of decks that people like playing, I feel like banning Droll isn't out of the question.

Droll and shifter have been in near-constant discussion for years now though. I remember people being convinced that shifter would be banned during kash format and saying it only survived tear format because it was a "necessary out" to tear. Lancea follows the same principle and honestly could be banned just out of principle, but it pokes its head out to be a problem once every few years rather than at various points of each format. I feel like that's the kind of specific counter-play that can be healthy to have in a game, rather than "no graveyard" or "no searching" in an age where every deck uses the graveyard and searches to some degree if they're actually playing the game

[DontMisunderstand]

Publicado originalmente por G3:

Publicado originalmente por DontMisunderstand:

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

I can't tell what you're trying to endorse. Banning the Symptoms of the problem instead of fixing anything? Wanting more decks to play more floodgates? Or, let combo streamline themselves into the most high roll builds possible because they no longer have to build around interruption?

We're not talking about mutually exclusive things. We can ban hand traps, FTKs, and end board negates. That's an option that exists. For every single thing people argue hand traps are necessary to stop, there are things we can do to fix them without hand traps. Hand traps aren't *just* symptoms of a problem. They're also another problem unto themselves. The prevalence of 1 for 1 turn 0 negates is what led to all these engines designed to play THROUGH multiple negates. That's an advantage those archetypes have solely because these negates exist. If playing through negates isn't necessary, it's not as though the endboards get stronger.

The thing I'm trying to endorse is a healthier game. There's nothing combo players can do that require hand traps to stop. There are other solutions.

[Astrallight]

Hand traps are just bandage cards that was made to temporary fix what is already a broken state of this game. If YGH have to be good again then every card should either be banned and make the game from scratch. Or give every card an erata and balance cards after what they do. Cards that negate and destroy is already a dumb effect. Since destorying the card now means less resources to play with. Cards that negate should be build with an side effect to balance it out. Right now there are no side effects with monster negates that destroy aswell.

Spright is a good example of a balance deck that lose cards as a side effect of negating. Negating monsters should have a cost for doing so. Not just blindly click yes without paying anything to do so.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

Hand traps are just bandage cards that was made to temporary fix what is already a broken state of this game. If YGH have to be good again then every card should either be banned and make the game from scratch. Or give every card an erata and balance cards after what they do. Cards that negate and destroy is already a dumb effect. Since destorying the card now means less resources to play with. Cards that negate should be build with an side effect to balance it out. Right now there are no side effects with monster negates that destroy aswell.

Spright is a good example of a balance deck that lose cards as a side effect of negating. Negating monsters should have a cost for doing so. Not just blindly click yes without paying anything to do so.

They already did, it's called RUSH Duels

[Meneluma]

Publicado originalmente por Papa Shekels:

Droll and shifter have been in near-constant discussion for years now though. I remember people being convinced that shifter would be banned during kash format and saying it only survived tear format because it was a "necessary out" to tear.

Shifter is more contentious because you don't need to play a ridiculous meta combo deck to get really hosed by it, and it stops handtraps from working serving as just another thing for the obnoxious meta decks to abuse, and it is somehow even more "if you have it, play it right away" than even Maxx C, just because if you get to play anything, you can't really use it down the line.
And somehow shifter isn't the gimmick of banish decks only as turn 1 Shifter makes its way into decks like tenpai, which for all intents and purposes are substantially hit by it, and yet they still play because no fancy combo turn2 big dragon blow up field spell beats opponent being unable to play game at all.

[Papa Shekels]

Publicado originalmente por Meneluma:

And somehow shifter isn't the gimmick of banish decks only as turn 1 Shifter makes its way into decks like tenpai, which for all intents and purposes are substantially hit by it, and yet they still play because no fancy combo turn2 big dragon blow up field spell beats opponent being unable to play game at all.

It should be telling how much of a problem a card is if its historical play is not based on "does this benefit me or utterly hose my opponent" but "am I hurt less by it than my opponent"

[HeraldOfOpera]

Publicado originalmente por Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!:

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

Hand traps are just bandage cards that was made to temporary fix what is already a broken state of this game. If YGH have to be good again then every card should either be banned and make the game from scratch. Or give every card an erata and balance cards after what they do. Cards that negate and destroy is already a dumb effect. Since destorying the card now means less resources to play with. Cards that negate should be build with an side effect to balance it out. Right now there are no side effects with monster negates that destroy aswell.

Spright is a good example of a balance deck that lose cards as a side effect of negating. Negating monsters should have a cost for doing so. Not just blindly click yes without paying anything to do so.

They already did, it's called RUSH Duels

Yep, the fact that Konami refuses to release them outside Japan is the real problem. It's exactly what the boomers have been asking for.

[MeowMeow]

Publicado originalmente por G3:

We all know Droll is only a problem for mega combo decks. And, only sees widespread use when those decks are the meta. I'm someone who mains decks that auto-lose to Droll. Droll is fine. It doesn't need a ban.

Non combo heavy also died to droll alot.
Like literally almost any rogue deck that isnt stun died to droll.
cyber dragon, dark magician, exodia, sky striker, marincess, trickstar, flowndereeze (but ♥♥♥♥ this deck, they only viable with stun card), weather painter, ancient gear, melodius, pendulum, infernoble.
The list goes on, even some deck that fine against it like kashtira, or yubel, could get soloed by droll, if they dont open with their main combo pieces alrd.

Most (not all) deck above only end on 2-3 monster, like what part of combo heavy u mean?
Marincess end on 1 tower, cyber dragon only spam when they go 2nd, exodia? only 1 real monster. And they still lost to 1 droll most of the time.

Droll is fine if this is 2010 or "IF" yugioh is more balance and have consistent turn 4 each game, but it diddnt, 1 droll and u lost the game. Worst part? its the most combo heavy deck that play it aswell.


Look at my board guys, IP masq, Apolo USA, FS desirie, azamina silvia, snake eyes dragon, and promethean princess.
oh thats right, dont forget my droll lock bird on hand aswell. good luck buddy, dealing with my board.

SEE HOW STUPID ur point is.

[76561199243158225]

droll is a double edge. on one hand it stops your both side from adding cards but if something unexpected could happen such as one of us could have triple tactic talent and return a threatening card back to the deck or we build a board that will ruin their plays when it is our opponents turn.

[itzRiceKrispies]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Publicado originalmente por G3:

We all know Droll is only a problem for mega combo decks. And, only sees widespread use when those decks are the meta. I'm someone who mains decks that auto-lose to Droll. Droll is fine. It doesn't need a ban.

Non combo heavy also died to droll alot.
Like literally almost any rogue deck that isnt stun died to droll.
cyber dragon, dark magician, exodia, sky striker, marincess, trickstar, flowndereeze (but ♥♥♥♥ this deck, they only viable with stun card), weather painter, ancient gear, melodius, pendulum, infernoble.
The list goes on, even some deck that fine against it like kashtira, or yubel, could get soloed by droll, if they dont open with their main combo pieces alrd.

Most (not all) deck above only end on 2-3 monster, like what part of combo heavy u mean?
Marincess end on 1 tower, cyber dragon only spam when they go 2nd, exodia? only 1 real monster. And they still lost to 1 droll most of the time.

Droll is fine if this is 2010 or "IF" yugioh is more balance and have consistent turn 4 each game, but it diddnt, 1 droll and u lost the game. Worst part? its the most combo heavy deck that play it aswell.


Look at my board guys, IP masq, Apolo USA, FS desirie, azamina silvia, snake eyes dragon, and promethean princess.
oh thats right, dont forget my droll lock bird on hand aswell. good luck buddy, dealing with my board.

SEE HOW STUPID ur point is.

I'm a Melodious player and the only combo we have that gets screwed over by Droll is our 1st Movement Solo one. Other then that we really don't care that much about it. U got the other ones down though. I've said before Droll is a stupid card. It's either completely busted or absolutely worthless. Seems like there is never an in-between with her.

Though G3 is correct. U guys think the combo decks are powerful now. Take Droll and some of the other hand traps(like Imperm) out of the game and OMG.

U guys really don't want to see what these decks can do when unopposed. Ash can't stop all of them by herself.....

[TormentedSalad]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Publicado originalmente por G3:

We all know Droll is only a problem for mega combo decks. And, only sees widespread use when those decks are the meta. I'm someone who mains decks that auto-lose to Droll. Droll is fine. It doesn't need a ban.

Non combo heavy also died to droll alot.
Like literally almost any rogue deck that isnt stun died to droll.
cyber dragon, dark magician, exodia, sky striker, marincess, trickstar, flowndereeze (but ♥♥♥♥ this deck, they only viable with stun card), weather painter, ancient gear, melodius, pendulum, infernoble.
The list goes on, even some deck that fine against it like kashtira, or yubel, could get soloed by droll, if they dont open with their main combo pieces alrd.

Most (not all) deck above only end on 2-3 monster, like what part of combo heavy u mean?
Marincess end on 1 tower, cyber dragon only spam when they go 2nd, exodia? only 1 real monster. And they still lost to 1 droll most of the time.

Droll is fine if this is 2010 or "IF" yugioh is more balance and have consistent turn 4 each game, but it diddnt, 1 droll and u lost the game. Worst part? its the most combo heavy deck that play it aswell.


Look at my board guys, IP masq, Apolo USA, FS desirie, azamina silvia, snake eyes dragon, and promethean princess.
oh thats right, dont forget my droll lock bird on hand aswell. good luck buddy, dealing with my board.

SEE HOW STUPID ur point is.

Marincess doesn't lose to droll some hands might but given they are likely being hit with drill after they search battle ocean they still hit Argonaut pretty consistently droll is an extremely frustrating card but it only ultimately sees play when some high power combo deck loses to it

[MeowMeow]

Publicado originalmente por TormentedSalad:

Marincess doesn't lose to droll some hands might but given they are likely being hit with drill after they search battle ocean they still hit Argonaut pretty consistently droll is an extremely frustrating card but it only ultimately sees play when some high power combo deck loses to it

No no, my point even those less combo heavy deck sometimes lose to it, like even yubel ends on a joke board if u droll them, and they dont have lotus on hand.
marincess couldnt end with battle ocean protection argonoat ending most of the time if u droll them + 1 any handtrap like ash or imperm, which is the main issue.
They usually end on great reef bubble if u imperm them, and with droll its enough to shut u down without getting ur marincess wave. U usually search 2-3 card in marincess, and stopping one is enough to make their board a joke.

To end on argonaut u need a very good hand that can play against ash/ imperm most of the time. drolling them on first search is usually enough to make them not have marincess wave.

Like no way droll is healty if even deck that only do 2-3 search got their board shutdown.

i think u need to read my point previously that some that that "looks like" can play thru droll is usually because they alrd have the main piece in hand. Droll pretty much shutdown 1/4 of ur card that usually search u important card.
Hell who want to go 2nd against established board only them to droll u and now u cant use triple tactic that u just drew.

[MeowMeow]

Publicado originalmente por itzRiceKrispies:

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Non combo heavy also died to droll alot.
Like literally almost any rogue deck that isnt stun died to droll.
cyber dragon, dark magician, exodia, sky striker, marincess, trickstar, flowndereeze (but ♥♥♥♥ this deck, they only viable with stun card), weather painter, ancient gear, melodius, pendulum, infernoble.
The list goes on, even some deck that fine against it like kashtira, or yubel, could get soloed by droll, if they dont open with their main combo pieces alrd.

Most (not all) deck above only end on 2-3 monster, like what part of combo heavy u mean?
Marincess end on 1 tower, cyber dragon only spam when they go 2nd, exodia? only 1 real monster. And they still lost to 1 droll most of the time.

Droll is fine if this is 2010 or "IF" yugioh is more balance and have consistent turn 4 each game, but it diddnt, 1 droll and u lost the game. Worst part? its the most combo heavy deck that play it aswell.


Look at my board guys, IP masq, Apolo USA, FS desirie, azamina silvia, snake eyes dragon, and promethean princess.
oh thats right, dont forget my droll lock bird on hand aswell. good luck buddy, dealing with my board.

SEE HOW STUPID ur point is.

I'm a Melodious player and the only combo we have that gets screwed over by Droll is our 1st Movement Solo one. Other then that we really don't care that much about it. U got the other ones down though. I've said before Droll is a stupid card. It's either completely busted or absolutely worthless. Seems like there is never an in-between with her.

Though G3 is correct. U guys think the combo decks are powerful now. Take Droll and some of the other hand traps(like Imperm) out of the game and OMG.

U guys really don't want to see what these decks can do when unopposed. Ash can't stop all of them by herself.....

bro, the problem is usually those oprresive deck are the ones that using those droll. Like current fiendsmith line can play thru it easily, and then they droll u on top of that.

its the maxx-C problem all over again. maxx-c on paper sounds good to stop those combo heavy deck. Only to ends up being used by them instead and stop any of ur plays.
Droll is essesially the same.
I mostly play rouge deck, not once i prefer droll oveer ash/ imperm. Get ash? fine, i still have 2 more card in hand to search my stuff, drolled? aight gg. my hand is triple tactic and POT.

I have lost count where i able to break their apolo USA copy pasta board, only to be stopped because of 1 droll or 1 max c.

[itzRiceKrispies]

Publicado originalmente por MeowMeow:

Publicado originalmente por itzRiceKrispies:

I'm a Melodious player and the only combo we have that gets screwed over by Droll is our 1st Movement Solo one. Other then that we really don't care that much about it. U got the other ones down though. I've said before Droll is a stupid card. It's either completely busted or absolutely worthless. Seems like there is never an in-between with her.

Though G3 is correct. U guys think the combo decks are powerful now. Take Droll and some of the other hand traps(like Imperm) out of the game and OMG.

U guys really don't want to see what these decks can do when unopposed. Ash can't stop all of them by herself.....

bro, the problem is usually those oprresive deck are the ones that using those droll. Like current fiendsmith line can play thru it easily, and then they droll u on top of that.

its the maxx-C problem all over again. maxx-c on paper sounds good to stop those combo heavy deck. Only to ends up being used by them instead any stop any of ur plays.
Droll is essesially the same.
I mostly play rouge deck, not once i prefer droll oveer ash/ imperm. Get ash? fine, i still have 2 more card in hand to search my stuff, drolled? aight gg. my hand is triple tactic and POT.

Really? So ur argument is that Droll needs to be banned cause the best decks in the game right now can play thru it easily? Well fun fact. Droll usage will drop to nothing if that is the case, cause why would Fiendsmith run it if it is no good against the best?

And if u think for even a second that any version of Fiendsmith Snake/Yubel or whatever Tenpai is doing right now can't win without Droll, then boy do I have a very lucrative business venture to sell u. I promise its on the up and up, but I just need investors. Cheap too. Just need 5,000$ for start-up funds & by the end of the next quarter u will be raking in 3 times that. Interested?