Welcome Fuwalos XD

[AigamixDivah]

3x Fuwalos + 3x Maxx "C"...

I often only play fun decks that are screwed after one hand trap.

Maxx "C" has always been a controversial card and I still can't understand the 3x status in Master Duel, but we've learned to deal with it (mostly ALT+F4).

But now fun decks are even more screwed...

How are you going to deal with it in the future? Play Mayakashi and kill the opponent's deck with 40+ Summons per turn? Play 3x "Trickstar Reincarnation" & 1x "Card Destruction" and/or 3x "Heavy Slump". I imagine it's funny.

But honestly, I'm fed up with Maxx "C". They should give me my 90 UR gems, ban the thing and then we'll live with 3x Fuwalos XD

Please? XD

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Both of the Chum Buckets are coming in the next pack not just Fuwalos

[itzRiceKrispies]

Originally posted by AigamixDivah:

3x Fuwalos + 3x Maxx "C"...

I often only play fun decks that are screwed after one hand trap.

Maxx "C" has always been a controversial card and I still can't understand the 3x status in Master Duel, but we've learned to deal with it (mostly ALT+F4).

But now fun decks are even more screwed...

How are you going to deal with it in the future? Play Mayakashi and kill the opponent's deck with 40+ Summons per turn? Play 3x "Trickstar Reincarnation" & 1x "Card Destruction" and/or 3x "Heavy Slump". I imagine it's funny.

But honestly, I'm fed up with Maxx "C". They should give me my 90 UR gems, ban the thing and then we'll live with 3x Fuwalos XD

Please? XD

Please indeed.

[Papa Shekels]

Well, you're preaching to the choir with that. The OCG has 8 copies of the roach and it's a miserable hellscape for people to play in. TCG only has 6 with the mulcharmies and it's still significantly worse than it was at this time last year. Everybody's hoping for at least the ban of maxx "C", but that's not likely to happen immediately if at all, so until then we will just have to deal with it. The way people have done so in OCG has been to main deck floodgates on the assumption that you most likely won't get to play for the first turn or two anyway

[AigamixDivah]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

The way people have done so in OCG has been to main deck floodgates on the assumption that you most likely won't get to play for the first turn or two anyway

Sounds like we have a long, painful road ahead of us until Konami realizes that people are fed up.

[Raven]

Originally posted by AigamixDivah:

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

The way people have done so in OCG has been to main deck floodgates on the assumption that you most likely won't get to play for the first turn or two anyway

Sounds like we have a long, painful road ahead of us until Konami realizes that people are fed up.

Looking at ArgoStars (which look awesome btw), it looks like the strategy going forward is cards that can use their special summoning at will without using up your normal summon

edit: I realize how unclear that sounds, but I mean cards that can be set up to be summoned on your turn, your opponents turn, either way based around dodging maxx c effects or just effects in general

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by AigamixDivah:

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

The way people have done so in OCG has been to main deck floodgates on the assumption that you most likely won't get to play for the first turn or two anyway

Sounds like we have a long, painful road ahead of us until Konami realizes that people are fed up.

They don't care. They are exploitative and they know it.

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Raven:

edit: I realize how unclear that sounds, but I mean cards that can be set up to be summoned on your turn, your opponents turn, either way based around dodging maxx c effects or just effects in general

That sounds interesting, but please elaborate, is this something different from I:P link summoning on opponent' turn, or the sychro fish decks and Centur-ion doing the same?

Or is it something like cards such as the ones that special summon other cards as their on-summon effect being able to save the effect for later to dodge negates and such?

[Silyon]

Originally posted by AigamixDivah:

How are you going to deal with it in the future? Play Mayakashi and kill the opponent's deck with 40+ Summons per turn? Play 3x "Trickstar Reincarnation" & 1x "Card Destruction" and/or 3x "Heavy Slump". I imagine it's funny.

Summon-spamming them doesn't really work that well, both Mulcharmies shuffle cards back into the deck during the end phase. Unless they're dumb enough to use multiple in a turn and run a thin deck, causing a deckout with their mandatory draws is hard.

Personally, I'd treat them exactly the same as I've been treating Maxx C. By ignoring their existence as cards completely. Maxx C and it's little brothers do nothing to board presence, only give a massive amount of hand advantage while not actually disrupting you unless you let them psych you out. Hand advantage is restricted by Hard Once-per-turns and short of drawing into a Nib or D-Shifter will do nothing particularly threatening until their own turn rolls around. It doesn't make sense for me to burn my extremely limited anti-handtrap plays on Maxx C instead of the real threat Maxx C is letting them draw into. It also doesn't make sense to weaken my endboard in the face of a "maybe" when there are so many certain threats I need it to deal with.

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Originally posted by AigamixDivah:

How are you going to deal with it in the future? Play Mayakashi and kill the opponent's deck with 40+ Summons per turn? Play 3x "Trickstar Reincarnation" & 1x "Card Destruction" and/or 3x "Heavy Slump". I imagine it's funny.

Summon-spamming them doesn't really work that well, both Mulcharmies shuffle cards back into the deck during the end phase. Unless they're dumb enough to use multiple in a turn and run a thin deck, causing a deckout with their mandatory draws is hard.

The running joke for flower cardians was that they deck you if you use Maxx C no matter what hand traps you use, and if you if you made the mistake of dropping the roach on them, hold onto Ash for dear life before the Card Destruction hits.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Originally posted by AigamixDivah:

How are you going to deal with it in the future? Play Mayakashi and kill the opponent's deck with 40+ Summons per turn? Play 3x "Trickstar Reincarnation" & 1x "Card Destruction" and/or 3x "Heavy Slump". I imagine it's funny.

Summon-spamming them doesn't really work that well, both Mulcharmies shuffle cards back into the deck during the end phase. Unless they're dumb enough to use multiple in a turn and run a thin deck, causing a deckout with their mandatory draws is hard.

Personally, I'd treat them exactly the same as I've been treating Maxx C. By ignoring their existence as cards completely. Maxx C and it's little brothers do nothing to board presence, only give a massive amount of hand advantage while not actually disrupting you unless you let them psych you out. Hand advantage is restricted by Hard Once-per-turns and short of drawing into a Nib or D-Shifter will do nothing particularly threatening until their own turn rolls around. It doesn't make sense for me to burn my extremely limited anti-handtrap plays on Maxx C instead of the real threat Maxx C is letting them draw into. It also doesn't make sense to weaken my endboard in the face of a "maybe" when there are so many certain threats I need it to deal with.

If you ignore the Maxx C then you run the risk of giving them more openers, extenders and disruption than you have interaction points.

That strategy works until it doesn't. Droll or bust is the new meta.

[Silyon]

Originally posted by Bad Distraction Carnifex:

If you ignore the Maxx C then you run the risk of giving them more openers, extenders and disruption than you have interaction points.

That strategy works until it doesn't. Droll or bust is the new meta.

True, it works until it doesn't. No one wins every game even if they bend over backwards to deal with meta. Being able to accept the occasional loss without letting it compromise your enjoyment is not only important, but healthy. Generally, if I was going to lose because they got to a starter I couldn't stop then I was going to lose regardless of if they played Maxx C or not. And if I beat them even after they do their starter and pop off, Maxx C never mattered in the first place and wasn't worth a disruption to begin with.

Either way doesn't matter, Maxx C isn't worth the card it takes to respond to. Might be a bit of circular logic, but it's worked for me for quite a long time. Still think it ought to be banned though, and the fact that it isn't and they're making more copies of it is absurd to me.

[Papa Shekels]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Either way doesn't matter, Maxx C isn't worth the card it takes to respond to. Might be a bit of circular logic, but it's worked for me for quite a long time. Still think it ought to be banned though, and the fact that it isn't and they're making more copies of it is absurd to me.

Mathematically speaking, the logic against it is sound. The correct option is almost never to play into it because very few summons in the game are worth giving your opponent an additional card from their own deck. The problem is that you only see a survivorship bias in its outcomes - if you lose by playing into it, you don't know if they already had the out from the start or if your plays lost you the game. If they lose after you played into it, you know for sure that it didn't make the difference. So you can only ever confirm when maxx "C" didn't matter. And although you could hypothetically take a calculated risk mid-game, it's kind of a moot point since you will never know the actual odds of the risk you are taking. Unless you run some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gimmick deck where you looked through your opponent's entire hand and deck, then I guess you do actually have the information for it, but we know that isn't ever going to happen in a normal game.

The closest realistic situation is exactly the following: you summon something, opponent maxx "C"s you, you use talent to look at their hand. You don't know the rest of their deck and what they could draw into, but you at least know whether your opponent already has the out to your specific board or if you can afford risking it with what you have left. Or whether they already have something that beats you in hand and you need to dedicate more summons to build up the bare minimum to survive that, and pray that the extra summons won't turn the tide back around

[Silyon]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

Mathematically speaking, the logic against it is sound. The correct option is almost never to play into it because very few summons in the game are worth giving your opponent an additional card from their own deck. The problem is that you only see a survivorship bias in its outcomes - if you lose by playing into it, you don't know if they already had the out from the start or if your plays lost you the game. If they lose after you played into it, you know for sure that it didn't make the difference. So you can only ever confirm when maxx "C" didn't matter. And although you could hypothetically take a calculated risk mid-game, it's kind of a moot point since you will never know the actual odds of the risk you are taking. Unless you run some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gimmick deck where you looked through your opponent's entire hand and deck, then I guess you do actually have the information for it, but we know that isn't ever going to happen in a normal game.

There's absolutely survivor's bias and it's unavoidable unless you're specifically playing against friends using well-known decks. In which case, what kinds of friends are Maxx C-ing eachother in the first place?

The way I look at it, the value of drawing a card is the median of the single best and worst cards you could draw in your deck. Because I can't know what the opponent is playing until they use some distinguishing card, the value of the draw is undetermined and cannot be assumed to be valuable or invaluable. Thus the advantage they are gaining is determined to be of lesser importance than the advantage I gain by actually getting more points of interaction established and being able to, theoretically at least, do something about whatever they do end updoing. Basically, I cannot be afraid of an unknown and won't let concern about that unknown distract me from doing what I have to do.

Of course, if they were to figure out a way to code in Convulsion of Nature or to make the effect of it or Respect Play a basic gamerule in some mode, you'd have the required information to make such judgement calls actually feasible. Without it, Maxx C is little more than a mind game that tempts you into making bad decisions.

[Papa Shekels]

Originally posted by Silyon:

The way I look at it, the value of drawing a card is the median of the single best and worst cards you could draw in your deck. Because I can't know what the opponent is playing until they use some distinguishing card, the value of the draw is undetermined and cannot be assumed to be valuable or invaluable. Thus the advantage they are gaining is determined to be of lesser importance than the advantage I gain by actually getting more points of interaction established and being able to, theoretically at least, do something about whatever they do end updoing. Basically, I cannot be afraid of an unknown and won't let concern about that unknown distract me from doing what I have to do.

That's where the difference lies then. Without knowing what my opponent is on, I assume it to be at least somewhat competent. And since it usually takes 2-3 summons to get to another point of interaction for a deck, even a barely competent deck can be expected to draw *something* to deal with it in 3 cards. It'd be a hard task to find somebody that can't deal with a moderate board using 10+ cards in hand, or a fully established board with 15+ cards. At that point if I can't reach anything meaningful in the next few summons, I'd rather just risk that the opponent doesn't have a way to win the game yet rather than basically ensure it. If they have a bad deck, a weaker board should survive, but if it's a good deck, giving them the extra cards basically guarantees an out to anything I can do

[matija123123]

Idk about the others but I'll tell you how I will deal with it, I will find a different game I pretty much stopped playing already but now chances of me returning are below 0.

Format gets worse and worse every few months and they fully committed to having Maxx c legal with fuwalos so what's the point. Game is basically all RNG because of cards like this and with every deck being a copy-paste of one another with different artwork there is pretty much no reason to play anymore.