How the hell do I counter Red Eyes Black Dragoon

[Thegreninjagal]

I think it's legitimately impossible to do so without sheer luck. it can't be killed with card effects, if you try to banish it it negates that AND gets stronger, and it has Blue Eyes level attack so if it negates one thing it's unkillable. how the hell did this mistake get designed...

[Silyon]

Publicado originalmente por Croustifiak:

Publicado originalmente por Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!:

Don't use DRNM unless you're Ojama, Forbidden Droplet is never a brick, and Super Poly targets so you have to negate it first

Superpoly doesn't target, the only things that protect from the effect is being unaffected by magic/opponent card.

This. Super Poly is a spell kaiju. Same rulings.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Publicado originalmente por Silyon:

Publicado originalmente por Croustifiak:

Superpoly doesn't target, the only things that protect from the effect is being unaffected by magic/opponent card.

This. Super Poly is a spell kaiju. Same rulings.

Actually, it's still treated as a card effect. True towers monsters are still immune, but fortunately Dragoon doesn't qualify.

[Locksoli]

Underworld Goddess and any negate card. Witch's strike works pretty well.

[Raven]

Honestly, the fact Starslayer Ty-phon exists and everyone should be running it in their extra deck in a Bo1 format means dragoon should be a non-issue, its whatever else is around along with him. If you don't have it, its up there on the "staples" list of cards you should have, like 3 ash, 3 maxx "C", etc. If you have it and don't use it, that's kind of on you. In a Bo1 format, its literally too good of a card to out things exactly like dragoon to not play it.

[itzRiceKrispies]

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

Honestly, the fact Starslayer Ty-phon exists and everyone should be running it in their extra deck in a Bo1 format means dragoon should be a non-issue, its whatever else is around along with him. If you don't have it, its up there on the "staples" list of cards you should have, like 3 ash, 3 maxx "C", etc. If you have it and don't use it, that's kind of on you. In a Bo1 format, its literally too good of a card to out things exactly like dragoon to not play it.

Agreed. Dragoon summoned with Red-Eyes Fusion is not much of a problem. Dragoon summoned with Anaconda and actual back-up on the other hand, well. Different story.

[Meneluma]

Publicado originalmente por Locksoli:

Witch's strike works pretty well.

It is a trap, and it's not a countertrap, if you get them to somehow fall into that on turn 2-3 and have it resolve then I applaud your skills. Assuming it even takes out dragoon since it still says destroy.

[Bolovan]

Hi there try to use 3xDark Ruler No More, 3xForbidden Droplet!

[Dinkleberg]

Publicado originalmente por Thegreninjagal:

I think it's legitimately impossible to do so without sheer luck. it can't be killed with card effects, if you try to banish it it negates that AND gets stronger, and it has Blue Eyes level attack so if it negates one thing it's unkillable. how the hell did this mistake get designed...

Use either non- target effects that don't destroy, Kaiju him, use card effects that send to the graveyard instead of destroying. There are many ways to deal with Dragoon, you just have to learn them and Dragoon himself is not that strong. The best thing about Dragoon is his omni negate once he used it, it's no longer a big deal. Just book him and ebat over him or do other things. He can't be destroyed or targeted which is some protection but there are so many ways to get rid of him just don't waste the only way to get rid of him by being negated.

[Meneluma]

Publicado originalmente por Dinkleberg:

Use either non- target effects that don't destroy, Kaiju him, use card effects that send to the graveyard instead of destroying. There are many ways to deal with Dragoon.

Mileage with Dragoon varies, the fact so few things actually threaten him, a player that won't click the Yes button to any removal effect will just save it for the one thing that will, or the one thing that completely shuts down the Link climb into the outs to it. Depends on your deck really.
Lack of kaijus in your starting hand much in the way of lacking handtraps can just mean the match is lost just because they got to solo dragoon turn 1.

Negate and detroy wording makes it hard to rely on consistent extra deck solutions not relying on luck of the draw because you lose material just to bait the negate.

[Raven]

Publicado originalmente por Meneluma:

Publicado originalmente por Dinkleberg:

Use either non- target effects that don't destroy, Kaiju him, use card effects that send to the graveyard instead of destroying. There are many ways to deal with Dragoon.

Mileage with Dragoon varies, the fact so few things actually threaten him, a player that won't click the Yes button to any removal effect will just save it for the one thing that will, or the one thing that completely shuts down the Link climb into the outs to it. Depends on your deck really.
Lack of kaijus in your starting hand much in the way of lacking handtraps can just mean the match is lost just because they got to solo dragoon turn 1.

Negate and detroy wording makes it hard to rely on consistent extra deck solutions not relying on luck of the draw because you lose material just to bait the negate.

For the third time, although I deleted the first time, starslayer ty-phon. Its practically a free removal of dragoon that people should be running anyway.

[itzRiceKrispies]

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

Publicado originalmente por Meneluma:

Mileage with Dragoon varies, the fact so few things actually threaten him, a player that won't click the Yes button to any removal effect will just save it for the one thing that will, or the one thing that completely shuts down the Link climb into the outs to it. Depends on your deck really.
Lack of kaijus in your starting hand much in the way of lacking handtraps can just mean the match is lost just because they got to solo dragoon turn 1.

Negate and detroy wording makes it hard to rely on consistent extra deck solutions not relying on luck of the draw because you lose material just to bait the negate.

For the third time, although I deleted the first time, starslayer ty-phon. Its practically a free removal of dragoon that people should be running anyway.

Yes. Ty-Phon is ez to summon and is a good out to many problematic situations.

[Meneluma]

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

For the third time, although I deleted the first time, starslayer ty-phon. Its practically a free removal of dragoon that people should be running anyway.

I use ty-phon in my deck already, my point in that "Dragoon, pass" Alone is enough to win if you have no kaiju in the starting hand. You can't even summon ty-phon in that instance if they didn't use Verte.

[Raven]

Publicado originalmente por Meneluma:

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

For the third time, although I deleted the first time, starslayer ty-phon. Its practically a free removal of dragoon that people should be running anyway.

I use ty-phon in my deck already, my point in that "Dragoon, pass" Alone is enough to win if you have no kaiju in the starting hand. You can't even summon ty-phon in that instance if they didn't use Verte.

I've ran into Dragoon ~6 times, all of them were through vert or the muddy/albian method. I've yet to see him summoned properly with fusion, and lets say it does happen. Okay, oh well, I take that loss. Or maybe I got one of the several other outs, the thing is starslayer alone is frequent enough without having to revolve your whole main deck, but people SHOULD have some main deck answers too.

Dragoon isn't the problem everyone makes it out to be. Some games it really is enough to wall you out and that's it, you shouldn't be expecting to win every game. But on that note, you shouldn't be losing every game solely due to it, if you are, that's a deck build issue.

I wrote a literal laundry list, which I deleted because everyone keeps this stupid discussion going and just re-listing everything, the whole list is throughout this entire topic already. there is over half a dozen strategies to deal with dragoon, and any deck should be able to accommodate at least a couple of them.

edit: and what is this kaiju only nonsense? Are you telling me no decks run a 3k+ monster?

[Papa Shekels]

Publicado originalmente por Meneluma:

I use ty-phon in my deck already, my point in that "Dragoon, pass" Alone is enough to win if you have no kaiju in the starting hand. You can't even summon ty-phon in that instance if they didn't use Verte.

As has already been said for a week now, this is simply not true. Dragoon by itself presents one negate that also requires a discard, and the rest of the turn it's just sitting there. Every competent deck has multiple outs to dragoon they can and should have accessible, ty-phon happens to be the simplest one that also provides minimal opportunities for disruption. It's the same thing as fenrir, it's just another roadblock on top of a board if your opponent high rolls into it, or it solos really bad decks. Yet in a competitive environment against a competent opponent, that roadblock acts as nothing more than a speed bump that regularly gets outed

[itzRiceKrispies]

Publicado originalmente por Raven:

Publicado originalmente por Meneluma:

I use ty-phon in my deck already, my point in that "Dragoon, pass" Alone is enough to win if you have no kaiju in the starting hand. You can't even summon ty-phon in that instance if they didn't use Verte.

I've ran into Dragoon ~6 times, all of them were through vert or the muddy/albian method. I've yet to see him summoned properly with fusion,

It's because Red-Eyes as a pure deck has aged like milk. It can't do ♥♥♥♥ post MR4.
Maybe if u ran it as an engine in Dragonmaid or D-Link? Idk. D-Link is getting its power back, sadly. They would definitely appreciate a Dragoon to their end board, but not if it interferes with their consistency.

I have no idea how Dragonmaids would run it. I haven't played that deck much.