Should slow play on purpose be punishable?

[Witcher]

Should slow play on purpose be punishable?

[e-dood]

The real question is how to determine if it is actually slow play and not a salty player reporting combo decks?

Then how should it be punished? I like the idea of slowly changing the color of the player's name till it turns red. Some fighting games do that for people who disconnect too often.

[Papa Shekels]

It is one of the two things you can actually report people for

[Silyon]

In order to punish "slow play", you first have to properly and objectively define "slow play". Which in the 25 years the yugioh game has existed we've yet to come to a clear consensus on. Even once we have such a definition, we then have to find a way to filter out false or illegitimate reports from people mashing the button because they're mad. And this is before factoring in possible lag from different countries, different devices, and different ISP's that the player themselves cannot be held at fault for.

There's a world of difference between slow play because of shoddy networking and slow play from intentionally dragging out the game to style on or troll the opponent. So much difference that we shouldn't be using the same term for both. Instead let's call the latter and situations like it "Disrespectful Play", just to be clearer on what we're talking about. And I would agree, disrespectful play should be a punishable offense.

[76561199543893354]

Even "Disrespectful Play" play isn't as clear cut. How do we know they are styling on the opponent and not paranoid about some gy/hand effect or too stupid/too in the flow to check how much damage is needed? Also what if they literally have to do 1 more thing to complete their missions like activating 3 spells, so have to start some combo to get a searcher for the spells?

[Terminal Desolation]

Originally posted by e-dood:

The real question is how to determine if it is actually slow play and not a salty player reporting combo decks?

Then how should it be punished? I like the idea of slowly changing the color of the player's name till it turns red. Some fighting games do that for people who disconnect too often.

I would like to think that Konami has a way of checking time between actions during replays, if you can report people for slow play.

But this is Konami, so anything is possible. Like, I personally think the buttons don't actually report anything, anywhere and they're just there to make players feel good, like they're doing something. If Konami was actually interested in enforcing any kinds of rules, there would be more than just the 2 options under "Report."

[Silyon]

Originally posted by sr5123rs:

Even "Disrespectful Play" play isn't as clear cut. How do we know they are styling on the opponent and not paranoid about some gy/hand effect or too stupid/too in the flow to check how much damage is needed? Also what if they literally have to do 1 more thing to complete their missions like activating 3 spells, so have to start some combo to get a searcher for the spells?

Missions are not worth considering in my book. It's an outside influence that affects your gameplay, little different from having someone over your shoulder backseat dueling. Which is generally agreed to be poor manners anyway. Either the missions get done over the course of the duel or they do not and you have to play another round to get them done, either way should not impact what you're doing in the duel itself.

As for the other two examples, these are one instance where a chat in the game would actually be a legitimate benefit, as it's very easy to tell through such tabletalk when someone is BMing you and when someone's literally missed something or messed up their math. Even without it though, there's a very clear message being sent when they have lethal on board vs. your nothing and chose to move to end phase for multiple turns in a row. There is no excuse to be made in such cases, and they not only are a thing that happens but are the overwhelming majority of legitimate "slow play" cases. People do it on purpose.

[Regina FeLangy]

First turn of each player is 30 seconds. I agree - this slow play bull is really bad (Dark World, Tenpai, Lightsworn, etc.) I think the game would be INSANELY healthier if they removed the capablility of OTK and FTK

[Raven]

Originally posted by Silyon:

In order to punish "slow play", you first have to properly and objectively define "slow play". Which in the 25 years the yugioh game has existed we've yet to come to a clear consensus on. Even once we have such a definition, we then have to find a way to filter out false or illegitimate reports from people mashing the button because they're mad. And this is before factoring in possible lag from different countries, different devices, and different ISP's that the player themselves cannot be held at fault for.

There's a world of difference between slow play because of shoddy networking and slow play from intentionally dragging out the game to style on or troll the opponent. So much difference that we shouldn't be using the same term for both. Instead let's call the latter and situations like it "Disrespectful Play", just to be clearer on what we're talking about. And I would agree, disrespectful play should be a punishable offense.

tell me you've never read the official rule book without telling me you've never read the official rule book.

It is extremely and well clear cut defined. Aside from that, proving it online is a different matter. When you say "should we punish"...how exactly? *WE* aren't the ones that get to make that call. We have the means to report it. This isn't anything anyone here can do unless you want to throw a lot of money at konami and tell them to go fix the issue.

[Soji]

i mean yea it should be and usually is in paper. Giving a game loss is about as much as you can do there but on master duel you just gotta hope they get reported enough for something to get done.

[76561199805182095]

I would love to go back to when these people with their braindead meta click and do stuff decks didnt exist, but sadly thats many of the modern yugioh players. Unless you use these meta 40 year long turn decks you dont get to play. You get to watch some sweaty bozo play solitare for 20 minutes, build a unbreakable board, and if you get a bad first hand with no handtraps you lose. And with master duels system of if you surrender you get nothing, and if you dont surrender you get piss rewards, you are damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[Silyon]

Originally posted by Raven:

tell me you've never read the official rule book without telling me you've never read the official rule book.

It is extremely and well clear cut defined. Aside from that, proving it online is a different matter.

See, first off the official rulebook (found here[img.yugioh-card.com]) says absolutely nothing about "slow play" or even the amount of time a player should be granted per turn. What you're thinking of are Event rules, not game rules, and the particulars can vary between events and regions. For example, OCG mentions only the following for "Time-related etiquette":

Originally posted by https://www.yugioh-card.com/ph/event/rules_guides/?lang=en:

• Any behaviors or actions that result in a delay of the duel/event may result in penalties towards the offender(s).
  
• If the duelist acts in such a way which causes unreasonable stalling for time unintentional or otherwise), the referee will first issue a 'warning'.
  
• Should the duelist continue to act in this manner, more serious penalties may be issued.
  
• If you suspect someone of acting in such a way, please notify a nearby referee.

That's it. And as you can see, there is no strict definition and is generally left up to arbitration by the judges at the event in question. Because a lot of the human element is removed in Master Duel, the definition must be both strict and explicit so that it is applied consistently and understood universally. It must be an absolute.

Originally posted by Raven:

When you say "should we punish"...how exactly? *WE* aren't the ones that get to make that call. We have the means to report it. This isn't anything anyone here can do unless you want to throw a lot of money at konami and tell them to go fix the issue.

The most obvious punishment would be an escalating lockout from ranked play for offenders, with frequent offenders potentially being banned altogether. While this could potentially be an automated process, the sheer ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of some among our playerbase would mean false reports get filed often and innocent people get locked out of playing for no reason. Thus an appeal process would also be nessasary, which would have to be human-moderated to prevent manipulation of the system. It's a steep ask, hence why it's not done.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by Regina FeLangy:

First turn of each player is 30 seconds. I agree - this slow play bull is really bad (Dark World, Tenpai, Lightsworn, etc.) I think the game would be INSANELY healthier if they removed the capablility of OTK and FTK

People like you are actually part of the reason it will never happen, actually. If the reports ever were being sent to real people, they stopped when they saw all the "slow play" that was in fact "opponent was playing a stupid deck as fast as they could be expected to".

[Astrallight]

Originally posted by sr5123rs:

Even "Disrespectful Play" play isn't as clear cut. How do we know they are styling on the opponent and not paranoid about some gy/hand effect or too stupid/too in the flow to check how much damage is needed? Also what if they literally have to do 1 more thing to complete their missions like activating 3 spells, so have to start some combo to get a searcher for the spells?

If you already have multiple negates on the field and is still scared for that 1 % battle fader then its mostly a you problem. But again this game is filled with ego players that need to do thier victory lap first before they allow you to walk away. Just surrender and move on is not an option anymore. If anything they deserve is just getting to wait until time runs out when they do this to others. Then I dont care if you then are just as guilty. Until people stop doing victory laps on me then im in my full rights to make the clock go down to give him his own medicin.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Originally posted by Raven:

tell me you've never read the official rule book without telling me you've never read the official rule book.

It is extremely and well clear cut defined. Aside from that, proving it online is a different matter.

See, first off the official rulebook (found here[img.yugioh-card.com])

Point made. You really never read it and you are going off the assumption you're right. That isn't the official rule book I'm talking about. That's a starting guide. Master duel is FOR OFFICIAL TOURNAMENTS use:

THIS.[img.yugioh-card.com]

edit: I guess its on me for saying "rule book" when I should've said "tournament policy". Slow play is very clearly detailed and how it should be punished.

[FlintX]

They should punish the in-game deck editors cheaters instead because it looks like they are back. I am finding people with no Maxx C or handtraps cards of the sorts in their decks that can delay my draw and standby phase at turn 1 when I am playing first.
What clowns.