What is wrong with the coin toss

[Grimangel]

Please explain this to me - going second every single game in 34 games in a row, never going first, dropped from 19 back to 17. Actually rigged...

[FlintX]

Originally posted by DeathDweller:

can have bots autoplay and play faster than the game allows a real person to activate cards

Ohhh, so that what it was.
I met 2 people in the Cup who were normal/special summoning monsters pretty much at the same time they were activating a field spell or some other support card. As soon as the duel started, with no delay for thinking or whatever.

So they are indeed running bots in the Cup event as well. Probably alt accounts for farming. And the poor guys at lower D.LVs are the ones who gonna suffer hard with this. Since the bots are running meta decks mostly and even after they have climbed up/reached the top, they will keep injecting the bots again on another accounts, perma flooding the entire ladder in the process. Which means every single D.LV becomes the same cesspool full of degenerated meta trash decks.
Imagine if the Top 10 users of this event turns out to be different accounts of the exact same asian dude, LMAO. I think it is going to be something really close to this.

Yeah, this reminds me how pathetic people can be in video games, just to reach a false sense achievement, by cheating, smurfing, etc.

[Grimangel]

Originally posted by FlintX:

Originally posted by DeathDweller:

can have bots autoplay and play faster than the game allows a real person to activate cards

Ohhh, so that what it was.
I met 2 people in the Cup who were normal/special summoning monsters pretty much at the same time they were activating a field spell or some other support card. As soon as the duel started, with no delay for thinking or whatever.

So they are indeed running bots in the Cup event as well. Probably alt accounts for farming. And the poor guys at lower D.LVs are the ones who gonna suffer hard with this. Since the bots are running meta decks mostly and even after they have climbed up/reached the top, they will keep injecting the bots again on another accounts, perma flooding the entire ladder in the process. Which means every single D.LV becomes the same cesspool full of degenerated meta trash decks.
Imagine if the Top 10 users of this event turns out to be different accounts of the exact same asian dude, LMAO. I think it is going to be something really close to this.

Yeah, this reminds me how pathetic people can be in video games, just to reach a false sense achievement, by cheating, smurfing, etc.

Smurfing it ok, part of the game, the problem is that there are cheats in all forms, and if we had any resemblance of a good banlist it can be somehow bearable, but the way things stay I feel like there are absolutely some cheats or ways to abuse the coin toss, and the starting hand.

There was a beautiful example on Twich yesterday by one of the D/D/D streamers. The moment when he got into lv18, he lost 7 coin tosses in a row, got demoted and the next few games when every time he got first he bricked with the exactly the same hands in each case.

[FlintX]

"Skill issue"

[lucasgerstner]

i just loss the toss in 28 of mi last 30 games... obviuly ppl are abusing some sort of hack/exploit to win all toss...

[76561199243158225]

during the duelist cup the coin toss , my opponents have won the coin toss more than me and today while participating, my opponents have won the coin toss 3-4 times while I only won the coin toss once and I am feeling as though I have been rigged in the coin toss.

[FlintX]

I have a feeling that the coin tosses actually favor people who are in a streak of defeats. The amount of coin tosses I have been winning recently is insanely high. I even dare saying that for every 5 tosses I did, I won like 3 to 4. And I'm basing this on my recent experience in the event.

Excluding the 50+ games I insta surrendered the previous day, I am insta surrendering games everytime I bump into a meta slave, so I decided to take the opportunity to also do some data collecting regarding the odds of getting a specific type of card at starting hands. And so I went on my way and purposely surrendered for over 40 games straight the following day, 2 samples of 20 duels. While queued with a 60 cards Red-Eyes deck. 28 Monsters, 21 Spells, and 11 Trap cards. Keeping notes of how many cards of each type showed up on on hand.
For this card count in particular, the most frequent pattern that appeared as general results was:

•2 Monsters, 2 Spells, and 1 Trap.
•3M, 2S.
•2M, 3S.

(I originally had the intention to check if going first or second had any impact on which cards could shown up, and I almost did accomplished this by the ridiculous high amount of coin tosses I were winning and therefore picking to go second. However, since a few times the opponent won and chose second, I couldn't make the samples on its fullest. Even though I was skipping the games to guarantee the second pick on the next one, unfortunately the game history only saves up to 20 matches replays, and I've used it to do the cards counting. Yet the amount of duels I did play second was 36 out of 40.

Anyways, although I did not keep track of each individual card to check for bricks counts or other details like odds between normal and effect monsters, odds between continuous, quick, counter spell/traps etc. What I can say without any doubt is that there are definitely cards with higher rates of showing up than others. The amount of times the single copy of the Red-Eyes Metal Dragon or searcher like Reinforcement of the Arms showed up from a 60 card decks was so unrealistic that it is even laughable. Or the Red-Eyes fusion spell and also Fusion Mirror for the matter.
Yes. Draw is legit rigged and deniers can cry in silence.

[Grimangel]

Originally posted by FlintX:

I have a feeling that the coin tosses actually favor people who are in a streak of defeats. The amount of coin tosses I have been winning recently is insanely high. I even dare saying that for every 5 tosses I did, I won like 3 to 4. And I'm basing this on my recent experience in the event.

Excluding the 50+ games I insta surrendered the previous day, I am insta surrendering games everytime I bump into a meta slave, so I decided to take the opportunity to also do some data collecting regarding the odds of getting a specific type of card at starting hands. And so I went on my way and purposely surrendered for over 40 games straightthe following day, 2 samples of 20 duels. While queued with a 60 cards Red-Eyes deck. 28 Monsters, 21 Spells, and 11 Trap cards. Keeping notes of how many cards of each type showed up on on hand.
For this card count in particular, the most frequent pattern that appeared as general results was:

•2 Monsters, 2 Spells, and 1 Trap.
•3M, 2S.
•2M, 3S.

(I originally had the intention to check if going first or second had any impact on which cards could shown up, and I almost did accomplished this by the ridiculous high amount of coin tosses I were winning and therefore picking to go second. However, since a few times the opponent won and chose second, I couldn't make the samples on its fullest. Even though I was skipping the games to guarantee the second pick on the next one, unfortunately the game history only saves up to 20 matches replays, and I've used it to do the cards counting. Yet the amount of duels I did play second was 36 out of 40.

Anyways, although I did not keep track of each individual card to check for bricks counts or other details like odds between normal and effect monsters, odds between continuous, quick, counter spell/traps etc. What I can say without any doubt is that there are definitely cards with higher rates of showing up than others. The amount of times the single copy of the Red-Eyes Metal Dragon or searcher like Reinforcement of the Arms showed up from a 60 card decks was so unrealistic that it is even laughable. Or the Red-Eyes fusion spell and also Fusion Mirror for the matter.
Yes. Draw is legit rigged and deniers can cry in silence.

That is actually interesting, and as I mentioned I think there is a way to cheat or it could be intentional, even on the Meta Duel tournaments every week, some people somehow get Maxx C in every single game, some times more than a single copy, when you play multiple duels the odds of this are horrendous.

As for the coin toss, you may have a point, I had 17 games wins in a row wining streak when I was going through the ranks from 15 to 19, and after the first 5 I started the chain of going second and my hands started bricking a lot more, or opponents having perfect counters for each card I play. After getting to lv19 in the event, I'm yet to win a coin toss and I dropped to lv18, and this is like 6+ games.

Not sure is it people exploiting cheats, or something broken in the drawing algorithm used by Konami, then again it take 10min to make a random card drawing code. The more I think about it the more pissed off I get.

[DragonFlame]

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

Originally posted by DeathDweller:

Cheaters can see through cards, can have bots autoplay and play faster than the game allows a real person to activate cards, can spam the timer, can stall the draw phase etc., so i wouldn't rule out a coin flip cheat.

People talking about luck forget that we are talking about programming code here.

Until Konami makes coin flip into rock paper scissors, live report buttons, showing opponent's timer, replay with both fields and hands visible and an editor with free card placement, i'm not putting any of this on "luck".

They literally can't do half of what you listed anymore in ranked because konami changed that stuff from being client side to server side when playing online. So no, they can't cheat the coin toss, only thing they can do is alt f4 if they lose the coin toss, which has no effect on the outcome because it happens after the toss.
Me and my friends still haven't seen any kind of 10+ coin toss loss streaks that 2 ppl here are talking about, which is exactly why i think its bs lmao.

You can call BS if your like but I just went 14 games losing the coin toss, I have also had 5-6 times where I lost 10+ coin tosses in a row since Master Duel first started, it happens and its infuriating to the point you feel like quitting forever.
Really wish Konami would rethink the coin toss on a best of 1 format.

[Unforgiven]

Originally posted by DragonFlame:

Originally posted by Unforgiven:

They literally can't do half of what you listed anymore in ranked because konami changed that stuff from being client side to server side when playing online. So no, they can't cheat the coin toss, only thing they can do is alt f4 if they lose the coin toss, which has no effect on the outcome because it happens after the toss.
Me and my friends still haven't seen any kind of 10+ coin toss loss streaks that 2 ppl here are talking about, which is exactly why i think its bs lmao.

You can call BS if your like but I just went 14 games losing the coin toss, I have also had 5-6 times where I lost 10+ coin tosses in a row since Master Duel first started, it happens and its infuriating to the point you feel like quitting forever.
Really wish Konami would rethink the coin toss on a best of 1 format.

Yes because it is BS and as I mentioned before it's called confirmation bias just like that other guys insane sample size experiment with starting hands, weak humans always tend to fall into this pattern of searching something to blame for their weakness. I know plenty people who play this game and none of them have experienced either phenomenon.

[Kui the Kui]

If all of you are complaining about losing the coin toss and being forced to go 2nd, why don't you guys play decks that excel at going 2nd?

Then again, Murphy's law will kick in and you will all end up going first then most likely...

[Seras]

Originally posted by Kui:

If all of you are complaining about losing the coin toss and being forced to go 2nd, why don't you guys play decks that excel at going 2nd?

Then again, Murphy's law will kick in and you will all end up going first then most likely...

some ppl play ftk decks so building a deck to go second in a one and done setup is not exactly a foolproof plan its a good idea to have a deck that can do both tho

[Grimangel]

Originally posted by Kui:

If all of you are complaining about losing the coin toss and being forced to go 2nd, why don't you guys play decks that excel at going 2nd?

Then again, Murphy's law will kick in and you will all end up going first then most likely...

People should play the decks they like, meta or not it is their own choice, depending on what they find fun, we shouldn't have to make a blind go second decks. Especially because of the coin toss mechanic, there is something wrong if you ask me with they way it is set up at the moment, is it cheating or something else in the background due to coding from Konami, I don't know and I don't care. However from what I can see a lot of people are reporting coin toss losses in a row that are highly unprobable, we are taking a lot less than 1% chance or average coin win rate of ~20%. This needs to be reported and corrected, especially in a BO1 format where we don't have a meta relevant ban list and there are so many cards that should not be allowed in a BO1.

And also a note to Flint, as he did an interesting observation by surrendering 40 times, and said that some cards are more like to appear in the opening hand. We need a lot more validation, but it is a good observation. I have personally noticed that there are a lot more hand traps drawn in Master Duel starting hands, than in any TCG/OCG or locals event IRL.