What does a boss monster need?(Lets talk)

[Merilirem]

I mean in your opinion what does a boss monster need to be a boss? High stats? A high level or link rating? Negates? Protections? Something else?

What makes a boss a boss to YOU!

[e-dood]

Two boss monster threads?
Cheeky, lol.

I think for me, a boss monster is a monster that either has some form of protection or some form of strong interruption.

A decent stat line is often important.

[Merilirem]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Two boss monster threads?
Cheeky, lol.

I think for me, a boss monster is a monster that either has some form of protection or some form of strong interruption.

A decent stat line is often important.

The other one details the ones people like, which inspired this because taking those replies into account shows what people like a lot. It doesn't show everything though. There is a difference to me liking Horus the Black Flame Dragon Lv8 and me thinking the infinite spell negate effect it has is at all healthy and good design. I would rather it not be basically a floodgate. What I like is that its big and cool and has a procedure to its summoning. Going from 4 to 6 to 8 makes it feel good to summon. Lv monsters would have been so much better if they were ED cards.

Anyway the point is that I like cards like BLS as a boss but without protection it doesn't really shine as far as boss design goes. This is actually the big issue with the ritual BLS deck. The BLS rituals have no real protection.

I like your answer. Protection and stats is solid. Interruptions are themselves protection a lot of the time too.

[e-dood]

I think I'm sort of okay with something like Black Flame Dragon Lv8 being a strong as it is because it does require a lot of effort to get to. If he were easier to summon, then he'd really be annoying.

God, the BLS rituals could be so much better. It's funny how the vanilla one could do some neat things if you used certain materials, but the deck is pretty janky.

And yeah, interruptions are in a way protection, but in a more interactive manner. I kind of like stuff that is more like Cyber Slash Harpie Lady that requires something to activates its effect rather than some generic omninegate.

Or as I said in my topic, Amazing Dragon who can have an explosive effect if it gets summoned.

[Soji]

pretty interesting question. I tried to think about what makes a boss monster a boss monster and I think while it protecting itself in some way, whether that be it just being uneffected or having a negate on it is pretty often seen as what makes a monster a 'boss', its not the only thing that make a boss monster, boss material

Things like big gabonga I would consider the goblins boss monster, pretty obviously because it just enables everything that deck wants to do. It's an extender, its a point of interaction and its generic meaning you can run a bunch of rank 3 extenders to get into your goblin plays.

There's also cards like flameberge which have no negates either but is probably one of the best extenders the game has printed in a long time and its only quick effect is summoning a monster from the S/T zone on the opponents turn, which face value isn't as exciting until you look at the decks that use it and realize it can do things like summon your IP you set with its main phase effect. (which might I add, can be used as a form of spot removal on Turn 3 if needed)

Then you have my personal favorite boss monster in Ultimate Conductor Tyranno. I have been saying for a long time to anyone who listens, that I wish more boss monsters would get printed like this. Its a insanely strong card that has unique forms of interaction being that it can trigger Baby dino effects on their turn while also being a field wide book of moon. Then on turn 3, you can clear all the monsters you flipped and still get damage out of it, making the crack back even more deadly. If more monsters keep getting printed like this, I think YGO will be in a pretty good spot.

Having negates obviously is great, but having cards like UCT, Big Gabonga, even the new Ice Barrier lvl 10 Lancea keep getting made for their respective archtypes imo is way more interesting card design. It promotes different thoughts of play having to understand when the best time to use their effects are while making them and their respective archetypes feel more unique.

I do think YGO as a whole is getting better about boss monsters being printed that are more interesting than just towers monster with a lot of attack or a monster with an omninegate so I'm hopeful for the future of this game if they keep doing things like this.

I guess to round it out, what makes a boss monster a boss monster is essentially, what makes the deck and cards surrounding it worth playing in the first place.

[Zephyr]

I'd say it's the "strongest" monster in the deck in terms of stats and/or effects even if it's not necessarily your strongest card, for example arguably the strongest cards in Abyss Actors are the Scripts, but I'd still say Evil Heel or Superstar are the "boss monster" of Abyss Actors. Same with Amazement and both Arlekinos.

For a more abstract description, it's the monster you're betting on securing a win or stopping a loss in its tracks by virtue of its own sheer power. Whether that's by being an unbreakable wall, a coup de grace, or the solution to beating either of the former.

[Arkew Von Greffer]

Card who are like empen from floowandreeze

[Silyon]

The boss monster is your deck's specific wincon. It is the one, singular card (rarely a group of cards) you are always attempting to get on the field, resolve, or otherwise use to actually beat your opponent. It is both your most powerful card and the card that best represents what your deck is trying to do. It is almost synonymous with your signature card, which amounts to the same thing but isn't limited to monsters alone and could refer to spells or traps.

[Gauche]

Swag

[76561199543893354]

Biggest hitter and ideally challenging to summon.

[Ryoga]

Presence, it has to be something the opponent can't just swat away with every random form of removal and be done with it and should not be able to just ignore it either.

So on one hand it either has to have multiple layers of actually relevant protection or constantly revive itself for little to no cost (at least within the context of the Deck it is supposed to be played in) and on the other it has to pressure your opponent in some way shape or form (either through interruptions, floodgating him or constantly generating advantages for the player who uses it).

The stats should either be high or not matter at all.

[Merilirem]

Originally posted by Ryoga:

Presence, it has to be something the opponent can't just swat away with every random form of removal and be done with it and should not be able to just ignore it either.

So on one hand it either has to have multiple layers of actually relevant protection or constantly revive itself for little to no cost (at least within the context of the Deck it is supposed to be played in) and on the other it has to pressure your opponent in some way shape or form (either through interruptions, floodgating him or constantly generating advantages for the player who uses it).

The stats should either be high or not matter at all.

For the latter pressure would you consider stats alone sufficient? Like a protected monster with 5K+ atk. Would that be enough in your opinion or would it need more than stats and an ability that lets it stick around or come back every turn?

[IsthisKosher]

All of the above. Like Baronne.

[Ryoga]

Originally posted by Merilirem:

For the latter pressure would you consider stats alone sufficient? Like a protected monster with 5K+ atk. Would that be enough in your opinion or would it need more than stats and an ability that lets it stick around or come back every turn?

If the stats are high enough and the protection / self revival is good enough to pressure your opponents to play defensively then yes.

[HeraldOfOpera]

It needs to be the part of your end board that you expect to win you the game.

In the old days, simply having enough stats to run your opponent over by battle was enough. Even Envoy of the Beginning was 90% the fact that it was really easy to get out while running over everything and being able to attack a second time. It was singlehandedly responsible for Solemn Judgment being seen as having a real cost; 8k damage wasn't happening without a borderline custom hand, but 4k was worryingly easy.

Nowadays, "win you the game" is a little more abstract. You can make a case for base Eldlich in the pure deck, because even though he's mostly just a recursive beatstick he's also basically your only way of actually ending the game. In zombie pile he's not in contention.

[Papa Shekels]

It needs a single reason to be worth playing in its deck over the generic options available. That's a bit of a problem because this requires fair input from both sides to make boss monsters reasonable. Baronne de fleur singlehandedly invalidates a large amount of boss monsters because she does so much more than the primary investment of your deck while being so easy to bring out without any restrictions. I do think at this point though, whatever they do they need to synergize well with the actual archetype to be worth it.

Memento is a great example of it being done right, their boss monster is a huge beatstick that is easy for them to bring out and can attack a whole board, becoming a near-guaranteed OTK even through piercing with their other cards, but also has a trap that turns him into negates and a field spell that brings that recycles the trap. It's a self-sustained engine that does enough to be worth building around as a win condition, and rewards you for playing specifically this deck over anything else.

Preferably the boss monsters are also unique in their own way, because there are only so many times you can print "negate and destroy" or "your opponent can not" before it gets stale