So... Why isn't Kashtira Fenrir banned?

[Sardorim]

Everytime I drop him I feel like I win 9/10, most times opponent can't Out him or if they do they can no longer Out my Starter. So they're put in a horrible situation where they're screwed whether they Out the Fenrir or Not.

Then I go from Fenrir, Unicorn, and eventually to Arise Heart and they concede.

[Gauche]

Cuz Konami said so

[Silyon]

It isn't banned because it (and Kashtira as a whole) isn't making an impact in the highest levels of play, and because the archetype isn't currently in the way of a set release Konami wants to push. How oppressive or unpleasant to play against frankly doesn't matter if it's not doing one of those two things.

Yugioh is not a fair game. If your deck isn't doing something unfair and oppressive to the opponent, it's not being run correctly and is likely to have issues actually getting wins. Hence the end goal of every modern archetype (of which Kashtira is one) is ultimately to paralyze your opponent into taking no action or punish them harshly for any action they do take. This isn't a new thing either, it's just that back in the day (2004-era) the available cards weren't as good at doing it.

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

Fenrir is a good card but hardly broken nowadays, it could easily go to 2 and Kashtira would still merely be okay. TCG has it at 3.
It is a good single drop but I can barely remember the last time any of the Kashtira cards looked imposing. They are a supplemental engine to other decks.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by Silyon:

It isn't banned because it (and Kashtira as a whole) isn't making an impact in the highest levels of play, and because the archetype isn't currently in the way of a set release Konami wants to push. How oppressive or unpleasant to play against frankly doesn't matter if it's not doing one of those two things.

Yugioh is not a fair game. If your deck isn't doing something unfair and oppressive to the opponent, it's not being run correctly and is likely to have issues actually getting wins. Hence the end goal of every modern archetype (of which Kashtira is one) is ultimately to paralyze your opponent into taking no action or punish them harshly for any action they do take. This isn't a new thing either, it's just that back in the day (2004-era) the available cards weren't as good at doing it.

What's the saying?

A fair deck loses.

[Papa Shekels]

It's too fair. It can't search itself when it's limited, so it requires an investment of an engine to get the extra value out of it. By itself, it does not start any combo without xyz locking you with the riseheart special, so it can't be splashed in as a generic link/xyz engine. And its banish is a response as opposed to a proactive interruption. If you out the fenrir with your first monster effect, they never even get a chance to use it. The terror of yesteryear is in the nursing home today

[76561199543893354]

Originally posted by Sardorim:

Everytime I drop him I feel like I win 9/10, most times opponent can't Out him or if they do they can no longer Out my Starter. So they're put in a horrible situation where they're screwed whether they Out the Fenrir or Not.

Then I go from Fenrir, Unicorn, and eventually to Arise Heart and they concede.

It's not played that much in even more broken decks without the search because other options offer even more advantages. Fenrir is a sort of gatekeeper that makes it comically broken against older decks while just being good for current ones ... though usually w/e the opponents play, they tend to scoop when I steal theirs too.

[Dan Niton]

They concede because they either don't have good starting hands or they are not playing one of those top tier toxic decks.

[Astrallight]

Originally posted by Knud den Store 🧙‍♂:

Fenrir is a good card but hardly broken nowadays, it could easily go to 2 and Kashtira would still merely be okay. TCG has it at 3.
It is a good single drop but I can barely remember the last time any of the Kashtira cards looked imposing. They are a supplemental engine to other decks.

You forgot Arise-Heart is banned in TCG.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

It's how Konami balances Yugioh. Always reactionary and always around top end over representation. Balance rarely factors into it as much as it's just a forced set rotation through obsolescence. In fact I'd argue balance isn't the goal at all unless it's so bad it's killing sales.

To that end since Kashtira isn't meta it doesn't really matter that they basically make jank decks unplayable and act as a sort of gatekeeper. But yes, Kashtira as a whole archetype was a mistake and shouldn't have ever been printed.

[Soji]

Yea that's exactly why a tiny kashtira package is played in a lot of different decks. Forcing your opponents to have to deal with Unicorn + Kashtira just as a supplemental engine and then you can just pivot into w/e else the deck is. A lot of engines have done that over the years but idk if i'd say its ban worthy. It's just a really strong card, albeit very, very annoying one.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Originally posted by Silyon:

It isn't banned because it (and Kashtira as a whole) isn't making an impact in the highest levels of play, and because the archetype isn't currently in the way of a set release Konami wants to push. How oppressive or unpleasant to play against frankly doesn't matter if it's not doing one of those two things.

Yugioh is not a fair game. If your deck isn't doing something unfair and oppressive to the opponent, it's not being run correctly and is likely to have issues actually getting wins. Hence the end goal of every modern archetype (of which Kashtira is one) is ultimately to paralyze your opponent into taking no action or punish them harshly for any action they do take. This isn't a new thing either, it's just that back in the day (2004-era) the available cards weren't as good at doing it.

What's the saying?

A fair deck loses.

Specifically, a "fair" deck by definition will lose half the time against another fair deck. Against an unfair deck, it will lose even more often.

[Raine]

same reason they haven't banned phoenix enforcer.
banlist needs updating.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by Raine:

same reason they haven't banned phoenix enforcer.
banlist needs updating.

Who cares about DPE

[76561199378662608]

Originally posted by Raine:

same reason they haven't banned phoenix enforcer.
banlist needs updating.

Even Hero deck don't need him anymore bruh

[Ghost of Razgriz]

Because Tenpai is still a thing.