Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel

Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel

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Krystal May 3, 2024 @ 12:28pm
2
My thoughts on Modern Yugioh:
The following is a review I posted on the offical masterduel game page, given that it accurately reflects my current viewpoints on the game and it makes a good discussion topic(assuming people are mature about things and don't degrade into "git gud" comments) I firgured i'd post it here and see how it goes.

My thoughts on yugioh Masterduel will be in the following categories: "The Good" "The Bad" "The Ugly" and "WHY DOES THIS EVEN EXIST?!"

The Good:

1. Able to play my favorite cardgame with anyone I want online at any time.
2. Thousands of deck types to choose from and you don't have to pray they sell them in your area to acquire the cards you want.
3. Able to acquire plenty of cards starting out due to the generous amount of in-game currency the game gives you, more than enough to build at least 2 or three custom decks or buy 5-6 structure decks with no need to open your wallet.
4. The battlepass is easily purchased and is very cheap.

Masterduel has everything a Yugioh player would ever want in terms of the ability to play their favorite cardgame and that's one of the things I enjoy most about it. In earlier ranks games are fun and the back and forth of playing card effects, countertraps, spells, ect can be some of the most exciting gameplay I've ever had in a digital card game. Sadly this is where the good things end...

The Bad:

1. New players will struggle to make a deck that can stand up to veteran players who have already spent many hours in the game and acquired a lot more cards than the new player.
2. Even Veterans will struggle to make it past gold ranks without a powerful meta deck.
3. After the initial burst of free in game currency, gaining more can be a chore to complete often requiring players to complete mundane tasks such as playing certain card types 300-1000 times.

To be able to build a decent deck that can stand up to every other player when your just starting out can be a nightmare unless you get lucky on the RNG of cards you pull from packs and the secret packs you unlock. This can lead to new players losing over and over if they try to run a less than powerful custom deck. Even I still struggle to make a decent deck and I've been playing this game off and on since its launch. Structure decks can carry you to gold ranks for sure but you won't get much farther without building a custom meta deck.

The Ugly:

1. Originality is dead in this game due to the deck database granting easy access to decks to copy and paste into your deck storage along with being able to copy your opponent's deck after you've played against them.
2. Cheaters are frequent in gold ranks and all over platinum ranks.
3. In ranks gold and above the whoever wins the game boils down to the coin toss unless they bricked(drew a hand that doesn't let them setup their board).

I myself pride myself on being a homebrew deck builder, trying not to copy any other deck I see but its inevitable given the massive amount of players in this game that i will eventually do so without realizing it. That said, games in gold and even silver ranks are a slog to go through as I see the same copy and pasted decks OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, many of which are meta making it even more annoying and boring to go against.

Once I made it to platinum ranks the variance in deck types was much more frequent(thank god!) but then it boils down to whoever wins the coin toss because unless they bricked they will have setup their board in a way that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for you to even play the game. Wanna play a spell? They got a monster that will negate that. Trap? Yeah no, the same or different monster will make sure that never happens. Monster effect? Nope, can't do that either be it from the graveyard, field, or your hand. Summon a monster? HAHAHA-no. The moment its placed on the field they have a monster effect, trap, or spell ready to destroy it instantly.

This is why many players say that whoever wins the coin toss wins the duel because the player who goes first has the opportunity to shut their opponent down completely and will do so if possible. This leads to countless matches barely lasting more than 2 turns.

And then there are the unskilled cheaters who plague the gold and platinum ranks. Be it exploiting a bug or glitch, or just down right using a 3rd party cheatengine they will make sure you don't win as subtly as possible to avoid the banhammer. You could watch every single game I played when I went against a cheater and I guarantee you wouldn't be able to spot when and how they cheated unless you knew the game's rules in and out. That's how subtle and clever these cheaters are.

WHY DOES THIS EVEN EXIST?!:

1. Cards that can wipe your entire field with zero downsides.
2. Card effects that allow players to make multiple moves on YOUR TURN.
3. Cards that can shutdown your deck strategy so easily you'd think your deck was made out of glass with how easily they shattered it.

I have seen card effects in this game that make me ask the following: "Why isn't this card on the ban list?!" and more often than not I'm met with excuse after excuse on these forums as to why these cards are "justified" which has lead me to realize that if these cards were in fact banned, it would completely shatter the current "meta" of the game and force players to use their brains to create new meta decks and no one wants to do that i suppose.

So were stuck with these OP cards until the devs decide to do the right thing and ban them.

TLDR:

Game is worth playing but you had best be prepared to deal with OP cards, cheaters, and the same decks over and over and over Ad nauseam.
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Showing 1-15 of 42 comments
G3 May 3, 2024 @ 1:47pm 
The Bad:

2. Even Veterans will struggle to make it past gold ranks without a powerful meta deck.

I've cleared gold playing Spyral each time. Spyral hasn't been meta since 2019 and gets more fragile everytime new cards like Bystials and Kashtira get printed. I'm a yugiboomer. This is a skill issue.

3. After the initial burst of free in game currency, gaining more can be a chore to complete often requiring players to complete mundane tasks such as playing certain card types 300-1000 times.

This is how f2p games works. Onboarding new players with freebies is the hook. You're complaining about the career tasks. You're not supposed to depend on them for more currency. Dailies and event duels are the main source of free gems.

The Ugly:

1. Originality is dead in this game due to the deck database granting easy access to decks to copy and paste into your deck storage along with being able to copy your opponent's deck after you've played against them.

This is a you problem. Everyone now has access to tonnes of info about the game and performance of cards thanks to the internet. They can base their choices on decks and strategies based on proven results. If you don't want to use the tools you have because of your pride. Don't try to shame others for using them. I'll keep using a hammer for nails. You can keep using your bare hands.

2. Cheaters are frequent in gold ranks and all over platinum ranks.

Bots suck but, they don't count as cheaters since every play they have is legal. Cheaters were only at the beginning of the game. Playing Pot of Greed in ranked.
Akemua (Banned) May 3, 2024 @ 1:54pm 
We've already established you struggle to understand card effects properly, so no, there isn't a cheating problem. It's a you problem, period.
Last edited by Akemua; May 3, 2024 @ 1:56pm
Astrallight May 3, 2024 @ 2:33pm 
Only thing I can agree on is that beginner experince is not that great. Playing Blue Eyes beginner deck vs someone who already build a 100% working tier 3 deck is not fun at all.

But complaining about every deck is now a copy paste deck cause people now have access to the internet is just stupid. Not all people got half a day free time to scroll though 12000 cards to figure out what works with what.

And even if you have the entire MD playerbase make thier own decks then you will 100% have atleast some of them being nearly identical cause they got the same idea as you.

You cant have 100000000 unique decks without some of them being identical or close to identical what card choices goes for.

So if you one day run into one of those would you then call him a copy cat for playing the same as you just because he got the same idea as you ? Pretty hypocritical if you answer yes to that.
Otto May 3, 2024 @ 6:09pm 
Originally posted by deathsia:
2. Even Veterans will struggle to make it past gold ranks without a powerful meta deck.

With all due respect, I'd advise speaking for yourself. If I can clear gold and plat with the most braindead "we just got Switchyard," "angry gorilla noises" R10 Train build featuring Liebe, and I've been washed up for, what? 7 years now? Anyways, if I can do it with that, pretty much anyone can with a touch of effort (since it's only really 2 sections of the ladder).

And originality has been dead since the inception of the modern internet over a decade ago. :Pigeon:
ominumi May 3, 2024 @ 7:01pm 
The best thing about Master Duel... no more damn lawyers. Hate people arguing for their own advantage even though the card effect states otherwise. Now if you play a card, it fizzles, too bad, that's how the game really works.
Silyon May 3, 2024 @ 7:11pm 
Originally posted by deathsia:
2. Even Veterans will struggle to make it past gold ranks without a powerful meta deck.

I've mentioned this recently, You can't de-rank before Platinum. Any deck with a win rate AT ALL will eventually hit Platinum 4, regardless of how good it is. Play enough matches and you'll get there on the backs of people that forfeit on turn 1 because they didn't draw the perfect hand.

This fact is literally the opposite of your claim. If you mean Diamond or Master, then you have a point. But that also becomes a "what do you expect?", since those are the highest two ranks in the game. Of course you're only getting to those ranks with some experiance backing you up.

Originally posted by deathsia:
3. After the initial burst of free in game currency, gaining more can be a chore to complete often requiring players to complete mundane tasks such as playing certain card types 300-1000 times.

Typical free-to-play formula. This would be a legitimate point only if the client cost anything to download and install. They want you to buy gems, so daily rewards are never going to be particularly high and it will take you a while to save up enough from them to get new packs and cards. Patience is a virtue, and a lot of both new and veteran players could stand to learn some.

Game remains more generous than it's direct competitors anyway. MTG Arena actively sucks in this respect.

Originally posted by deathsia:
1. Originality is dead in this game due to the deck database granting easy access to decks to copy and paste into your deck storage along with being able to copy your opponent's deck after you've played against them.
2. Cheaters are frequent in gold ranks and all over platinum ranks.
3. In ranks gold and above the whoever wins the game boils down to the coin toss unless they bricked(drew a hand that doesn't let them setup their board).

These are salt-crusted personal gripes, not facts. Hardly need to remind you of the elitist attitude you were throwing considering so-called "originality in deck building" in another one of your recent threads. In that very thread you admitted to using Purrly/Melphy, which is a meta archetype, and tried to pass it off as not being while shaming a bunch of strawmen you made up to argue with.

How are you even quantifying "cheating" in Master Duel? The overwhelming majority of the time, any weirdness with effect resolution or activation windows comes down to either user error (ie misreading cards or forgetting lingering effects) or special-case errata that's poorly explained on the card in question. You can't prove hand-fixing one way or the other because even in replays hidden information (such as hand contents) remains hidden. Only thing I could think of is the turn timer never forcing a surrender or something, and that's both reportable and fixed by your own surrender.

Originally posted by deathsia:
1. Cards that can wipe your entire field with zero downsides.

Here's one I'm 100% behind. Unconditional boardwipes should never have gotten stronger or more generic than Raigeki and Feather Duster. This is a YGO problem though, not a Master Duel problem. As a YGO simulator, Master Duel can't be held responsible for the screw-ups of the overall card game.

Originally posted by deathsia:
2. Card effects that allow players to make multiple moves on YOUR TURN.

This one's debatable. If you mean being able to continue building a board during the opponent's standby phase, ala Tear and Floo, then I agree that it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. It's quite simply cheating around hard once-per-turn rules, which is about the only "economy" factor in the game. Dangerous, abusable, and unfair for decks that can't do it.

Originally posted by deathsia:
3. Cards that can shutdown your deck strategy so easily you'd think your deck was made out of glass with how easily they shattered it.

Your deck-building issues are not a concern of the game as a whole. There is always counterplay and always has been. The opponent will do everything they can to disrupt your plays because they also want to win. It is patently absurd to think your opponent is going to sit there and let you do whatever you want, even if we were playing with 04's cardpool. The only difference is if we're using Mirror Force and Ring of Destruction to interrupt or if we're using Infinite Impermanence and Ash Blossom to interrupt.

If you weren't deliberately hamstringing yourself with your pride and "originality", then other players like myself could potentially help you improve either your deck or your play with your deck. To even make this complaint implies you're worse at the game than a good 80% of the playerbase, and as long as you refuse to let go of your pride and look for help you won't get any better than that.
Merilirem May 3, 2024 @ 7:30pm 
I suggest you try to learn more about the things you typed out as bad. Because most of them are definitely new player doesn't understand the game yet kinda stuff. Of course many never try to really understand why they lose in gold or think originality is dead.

All I can say is that the actual issues this game has aren't on your list. No one who understands the game is stuck in gold. Even before it was a guaranteed rank up.
Git gud
Papa Shekels May 3, 2024 @ 9:35pm 
Originally posted by Silyon:
I've mentioned this recently, You can't de-rank before Platinum. Any deck with a win rate AT ALL will eventually hit Platinum 4, regardless of how good it is. Play enough matches and you'll get there on the backs of people that forfeit on turn 1 because they didn't draw the perfect hand.

This fact is literally the opposite of your claim. If you mean Diamond or Master, then you have a point. But that also becomes a "what do you expect?", since those are the highest two ranks in the game. Of course you're only getting to those ranks with some experiance backing you up.
This same person said not too long ago that anybody can get to master 1 by just winning enough coin flips because there is zero skill involved in the game and winning the coin flip instantly wins you the game. I don't mean to be too rude but this is very clearly just a new/inexperienced player raging against their recent losses and saying whatever fits their current mood, nothing they say should be taken particularly seriously
Last edited by Papa Shekels; May 3, 2024 @ 9:38pm
Silyon May 3, 2024 @ 10:27pm 
Originally posted by Papa Shekels:
This same person said not too long ago that anybody can get to master 1 by just winning enough coin flips because there is zero skill involved in the game and winning the coin flip instantly wins you the game. I don't mean to be too rude but this is very clearly just a new/inexperienced player raging against their recent losses and saying whatever fits their current mood, nothing they say should be taken particularly seriously

That is painfully evident to anyone with more than two or three months experience in YGO forums and discussions. It's also not the point, realistically they don't even bother reading my counterpoints regardless.

The point is this. How does it look to an outsider, someone either new to the forums or unfamiliar with OP's history on this forum thus far, to come into a discussion where all these self-proclaimed "experienced players" are dismissing and mocking this person that looks like they're giving an honest and well-spoken review of the program and the game as a whole? Not only do we end up looking like the jerks, we also end up supporting some of what OP was claiming about the community's immaturity. Do we want to support any of their BS?

Whether they deserve scorn is immaterial; is that the image we want to offer to new players that don't know any better?

This is a forum, not a one-on-one discussion. There are people other than OP that are likely to view this post, and others like it. Think for a minute about how what you say might sound to those other people that stop by and read stuff. What image are you presenting to other people?
Last edited by Silyon; May 3, 2024 @ 10:28pm
76561199378662608 May 3, 2024 @ 10:50pm 
Originally posted by Silyon:
Originally posted by Papa Shekels:
This same person said not too long ago that anybody can get to master 1 by just winning enough coin flips because there is zero skill involved in the game and winning the coin flip instantly wins you the game. I don't mean to be too rude but this is very clearly just a new/inexperienced player raging against their recent losses and saying whatever fits their current mood, nothing they say should be taken particularly seriously

That is painfully evident to anyone with more than two or three months experience in YGO forums and discussions. It's also not the point, realistically they don't even bother reading my counterpoints regardless.

The point is this. How does it look to an outsider, someone either new to the forums or unfamiliar with OP's history on this forum thus far, to come into a discussion where all these self-proclaimed "experienced players" are dismissing and mocking this person that looks like they're giving an honest and well-spoken review of the program and the game as a whole? Not only do we end up looking like the jerks, we also end up supporting some of what OP was claiming about the community's immaturity. Do we want to support any of their BS?

Whether they deserve scorn is immaterial; is that the image we want to offer to new players that don't know any better?

This is a forum, not a one-on-one discussion. There are people other than OP that are likely to view this post, and others like it. Think for a minute about how what you say might sound to those other people that stop by and read stuff. What image are you presenting to other people?
Nah even if we all being incredibly nice to them, their perspective of the game won't change. And the people being nice to them will usually get insulted first.
Papa Shekels May 3, 2024 @ 11:10pm 
Originally posted by Silyon:
The point is this. How does it look to an outsider, someone either new to the forums or unfamiliar with OP's history on this forum thus far, to come into a discussion where all these self-proclaimed "experienced players" are dismissing and mocking this person that looks like they're giving an honest and well-spoken review of the program and the game as a whole? Not only do we end up looking like the jerks, we also end up supporting some of what OP was claiming about the community's immaturity. Do we want to support any of their BS?
With all due respect, I don't see why that matters. An outsider who knows nothing about the game is not in a position to judge whether a copy/pasted wall of text is accurate or not. And if they see people coming together to disagree with it, then that's a good lesson for anybody who does actually care to learn about the game to not immediately fall into misinformation. Playing along with a troll's game in order to keep up imaginary appearances doesn't benefit anybody here. And nothing I said was even insulting, I made a statement of fact and gave a real example (that would make some sense even to somebody who doesn't play the game) justifying why I said it. I used to be like you writing up entire essays to try and help everybody who is upset with the game, but you have to learn when to not waste your time with people who are clearly not interested in being helped and potentially warn others to also not waste their time
Kaulu May 3, 2024 @ 11:34pm 
I don't want to pick apart specific points you are asserting, as others have already done so, so much as I'd like to comment on your overall view of MD, and, to an extent, modern yugioh as a whole.

You enjoy the functionality of the game, it's accessibility for cards and the economy of the battle pass. These are all good things. I would argue MD does a far better job than the physical card game as far as accessibility goes. A lot cheaper, too. I think most people would agree that MD is a good platform at it's core.

You dislike deck viability and the economy slowdown after a while. I'd say it's less that the gem acquisition slows down and more so that it returns to the expected rate. It's only so high for newer players to try and hold their attention long enough that they can build a couple decks. After that they join the same grind as everyone else, where in one can easily get 6-10k gems every month. The game is extremely ftp friendly. No cards are only available to people who pay money. You won't have higher odds on random events like the coin flip before a duel if you pay money. If you plan your resources wisely you can be building new decks every month or two. As for viability, that simply comes down to how competitive the game is as a whole. My Witchcrafter decks will never be meta. Every single card is restrictive so they cannot be looped or create too much advantage. And that's fine. It will still take someone to a relatively high point on the ladder. A person just needs to be creative with what they put into their deck. I caught someone by surprise recently with stardust dragon in my labrynth deck. Or I'll make use of Fairyant the circular sorcerer to make synchros in my traptrix deck. Even if you are seeing a lot of the same decks, people will shape their decks differently over time, even if it started as a net deck. Yes, once you hit the highest ranks a lot of decks become next to impossible, but that's the nature of a competitive environment. As for the comment about building a deck that stands up to every other player that idea is how you lose deck viability. Yugioh(and most card games) is built on the idea that every deck has a weakness and strength, and thus has matchups that work well, and matchups that is struggles in. The moment a single deck is able to answer any other deck there is suddenly no reason to play any other deck.

You claim originality is dead, cheaters are common, and after a point winning comes down to the coin flip. Originality is tempered by competitiveness. You can throw almost any set of 40 cards together and call it a deck. Expecting it to do well is another thing entirely. There is a lot of people who are constantly trying out a lot of different things, be it combining different engines, chasing alternate win conditions, or perhaps trying to make a 20+ year old card work(Fire Princess will work, damn it). You state that cheaters are common, yet extremely hard to detect. You make this assertion without evidence. If we look at some of the threads you have already made, where it turned out you had not read your cards properly, we can assume a lot of these cheaters were simply playing in a way you didn't understand. This is nothing against you. Given how complex the game is, and how many things one has to keep track of it can be hard. The game has gotten better over time with this. Card effects didn't used to display which part of their effect you were being asked if you wanted to activate, nor did they place a tick next to already activated effects for the turn. I uncertain how this could be further improved on within the actual gameplay. Maybe they could put more resources into replays so people can better track combo lines and floating effects or lingering effects, or even summoning restrictions. Though I guess they could have a pop up window in game that could show if your cards have put any restrictions on your possible actions. As for the coin flip, this comes back to deck viability and originality. A lot of people focus on what they want their deck to do. This is fine so long as you are going first. Or going second for an otk style deck. However yugioh is a game where you cannot control whether you are going first or second all the time. Thus decks should be built to go both first and second. Those who don't do so simply fall into the trap of believing their is only one way to win; to go first. Most of these issues are also a big part of modern yugioh, and, in fact have been a part of yugioh ever since it started.

Finally, you make the points about powerful cards and the fairness of some cards. There are a lot of cards that do a lot of things. Some are more balanced than others. Nobody is going to say every card is balanced. Simple board breakers have been with us since the very first set iirc(Dark Hole was in LoB, yes?). At times many have been banned or restricted, but without them, a lot of other decks become too strong. There is a constant back and forth as far as balance goes and many cards go from being competitively viable to being more niche to then being replaced by something else, or perhaps becoming viable again due to a shift in meta. There are some really powerful cards that see next to no play because they are not reliable, while less powerful cards see more play simply because they are more reliable. When cards are shown to be simply too powerful on release, or because people have found new ways to use it they are often limited or banned. Many people believe Konami is too slow with their ban list changes. I'm unsure on this. A more constantly updated ban list would mean problem cards are dealt with faster, but it would also give less time for people to come up with ways to combat those powerful cards/decks and would ultimately result in less creativity, imo. However leaving too long of a period is equally bad as it pushes people away feeling like they have no choice but to play specific decks or lose. Once again, it's a hard thing to balance, and has a decent amount of back and forth with people enjoying more limited formats at times as they can better plan against their expected opponents, and other times people enjoying more open formats as they can play more variety of decks, but cannot plan for specific matchups as easily, and so can be hard shut down by certain cards without much chance to counter.

Ultimately it feels like your issues come down more to yugioh being a competitive game more so then anything specific within yugioh that is flawed. Deck viability, strong cards, "cheaters". These are all things that you should expect in a competitive environment. You can ignore most of that and still have fun. Issue arises when you want to ignore that and still be rewarded within a competitive environment.
Steel May 4, 2024 @ 12:42am 
Most of the OP is reasonable, but one thing stood out as very dumb; do you honestly, truly, believe that it's the IN-GAME DECK DATABASE that enables people to netdeck?

It's unbelievable that someone would honestly believe this.

Actually I take it back there's a ton of dumb stuff in there. You think cards that wipe the board are cheaters because you don't understand their effect? "I pride myself on being a homebrew deck builder" and you think that should give you an advantage in-game? The opponent should surrender because you build your deck yourself?
Last edited by Steel; May 4, 2024 @ 12:44am
Krystal May 4, 2024 @ 3:38am 
Originally posted by Steel:
Most of the OP is reasonable, but one thing stood out as very dumb; do you honestly, truly, believe that it's the IN-GAME DECK DATABASE that enables people to netdeck?

It's unbelievable that someone would honestly believe this.

Actually I take it back there's a ton of dumb stuff in there. You think cards that wipe the board are cheaters because you don't understand their effect? "I pride myself on being a homebrew deck builder" and you think that should give you an advantage in-game? The opponent should surrender because you build your deck yourself?

If they're as full of themselves as you are? Nah, not even then because I'd win or lose based on my skill as a player and homebrew deck builder. You're not the first to say my deck isn't original and you won't be the last but at least i built it and didn't look up some copy and paste guide or use the deck database.

Hell, you wanna know something funny? I ran into a mirror deck to my purrley deck except this one used the special summoning effect to clear my field with special summon effects of the beasts, I took notes of course since it beat me soundly but did I copy and paste it to make my deck better? NOPE, instead I swapped cards up and used the experience to improve my deck without copying one.

That's the difference between me and you, you see a deck that trounced you and you copy and paste it, I use it as a learning experience to improve as a deckbuilder and player.
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Date Posted: May 3, 2024 @ 12:28pm
Posts: 42