Will Raigeki ever go to 3x?

[Ehgk-Zakhari]

just pulled a third raigeki and it feels wrong to dismantle it

[Ehgk-Zakhari]

引用自 SpaceWombat：

Probably not. Cards which can field-wipe and don't require a discard/phase skip are some the strongest things in the game.

If raigeki or featherduster was allowed more than 1x then decks which don't have immediate backrow protection would be phased out, resulting in an even more stagnant meta.

raigeki is already at 2x. people always complain about an unbreakable board all the time. why not allow the meta to change by introducing more board wipes?

[Papa Shekels]

Probably. It's already been at 3 in TCG for a while and not seeing that much play. They do experiment with different DM staples across the lists though so who knows. Raigeki could come back to 3 on the very next MD list and I doubt it would make much of a difference

[Silamon]

引用自 SpaceWombat：

Probably not. Cards which can field-wipe and don't require a discard/phase skip are some the strongest things in the game.

If raigeki or featherduster was allowed more than 1x then decks which don't have immediate backrow protection would be phased out, resulting in an even more stagnant meta.

Raigeki was banned and limited when rebuilding a board was hard. Nowadays even if the raigeki manages to go through, a lot of decks can rebuild an entire board with one or two cards. Hell some of them an just do it with grave effects and not even need cards in hand for it...

Raigeki is not the powerhouse it once was.

[TormentedSalad]

引用自 SpaceWombat：

Probably not. Cards which can field-wipe and don't require a discard/phase skip are some the strongest things in the game.

If raigeki or featherduster was allowed more than 1x then decks which don't have immediate backrow protection would be phased out, resulting in an even more stagnant meta.

Raigeki .. destroys monsters also its at 2 its really not hard to read the card and check its current status before saying anything.

It will go to 3 it basically eats a negate or in the worst case the board you destroy with it floats into an even better board Tearlament comes to mind hell going 2nd lightning storm is raigeki + it can double as duster

[Silamon]

引用自 SpaceWombat：

引用自 Silamon：

Raigeki was banned and limited when rebuilding a board was hard. Nowadays even if the raigeki manages to go through, a lot of decks can rebuild an entire board with one or two cards. Hell some of them an just do it with grave effects and not even need cards in hand for it...

Raigeki is not the powerhouse it once was.

Being able to rebuild quickly means nothing if your opponent can OTK you the turn they wipe your board.

It's the same issue Maxx-C and so many other cards have. You can argue a card should be unrestricted because of the recovery advantage it gives to whoever is on the backfoot, but the reality is they will always benefit the person with more board presence far more if they happen to draw it as well.

Cards which don't have a hard once per turn and/or penalty to use have no business being anything other than semi-limited or banned.

Yeah no, Raigeki is plenty easy to counter. It's been powercrept so badly that it barely matters anymore. Like someone else said it's only real purpose is to force a negate nowadays.

The rebuilding board comment I left was referring to the very rare cases when Raigeki actually manages to go through.

[Terminal Desolation]

damn bro got disagreed with so hard he deleted his posts

[Lasagna]

im not a fan of raigeki even though it is "powercrept" mostly because it encourages people to make big negate boards to not die to a powerspell.

[Silamon]

引用自 Lasagna&Silly Bees：

im not a fan of raigeki even though it is "powercrept" mostly because it encourages people to make big negate boards to not die to a powerspell.

People build the big negate board because it stops lots of decks in their tracks, stopping raigeki is just kind of a bonus I guess. There are better, more searchable ways to out big boards than Raigeki.

[Papa Shekels]

引用自 Lasagna&Silly Bees：

im not a fan of raigeki even though it is "powercrept" mostly because it encourages people to make big negate boards to not die to a powerspell.

Yeah nah, they do that anyway. The going first player is heavily incentivized to make negates over anything else because that is the optimal form of disruption that protects you against the most amount of cards. You make a big unaffected monster, it loses to a kaiju. You make a huge beater, it loses to destruction. You set a bunch of backrow, they lose to backrow removal. You set up a board of infinite recursion, you lose to evenly. You set up a bunch of negates, the opponent has to play through the negates to be able to out it.

I feel like the impact of raigeki gets somewhat downplayed here though. Combo decks generally can not recover from a board wipe, especially all-in decks like dragon link. That deck literally did not have the extra deck space to go through their combo a second time. If you outed the board, they were left playing with whatever scraps they had left. Other decks don't care and can come back easily. Whenever I play raigeki in decks, usually it ends up being the card for which I bait out other interactions to make sure this one resolves, not the other way around

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

Raigeki isnt that strong so yes it will.

[Soji]

I'm surprised it isn't already tbh, Its just not that good of a card anymore when there are other option that do the same thing and more than raigeki

[Merilirem]

In time yes. Keep it.

[Lasagna]

引用自 Silamon：

引用自 Lasagna&Silly Bees：

im not a fan of raigeki even though it is "powercrept" mostly because it encourages people to make big negate boards to not die to a powerspell.

People build the big negate board because it stops lots of decks in their tracks, stopping raigeki is just kind of a bonus I guess. There are better, more searchable ways to out big boards than Raigeki.

missing the point, any board that doesn't end on at least one (really more) omni or spell/trap negate will lose to raigeki (or other power spells like TTT).

Really noticeable if you play Swordsoul and ever choose to not make barone turn 1 and instead go for evil longyuan, you WILL manifest raigeki into the opponent's hand and lose your entire board to 1 spell.

of course this happens even with raigeki at 1.

[Silamon]

引用自 Lasagna&Silly Bees：

引用自 Silamon：

People build the big negate board because it stops lots of decks in their tracks, stopping raigeki is just kind of a bonus I guess. There are better, more searchable ways to out big boards than Raigeki.

missing the point, any board that doesn't end on at least one (really more) omni or spell/trap negate will lose to raigeki (or other power spells like TTT).

Really noticeable if you play Swordsoul and ever choose to not make barone turn 1 and instead go for evil longyuan, you WILL manifest raigeki into the opponent's hand and lose your entire board to 1 spell.

of course this happens even with raigeki at 1.

No, not really. People are not making the negate board for Raigeki or similar cards specifically. People were making negate boards when Raigeki and change of heart etc were all banned. It's just one of the strongest strategies.

[Lasagna]

引用自 Silamon：

引用自 Lasagna&Silly Bees：

missing the point, any board that doesn't end on at least one (really more) omni or spell/trap negate will lose to raigeki (or other power spells like TTT).

Really noticeable if you play Swordsoul and ever choose to not make barone turn 1 and instead go for evil longyuan, you WILL manifest raigeki into the opponent's hand and lose your entire board to 1 spell.

of course this happens even with raigeki at 1.

No, not really. People are not making the negate board for Raigeki or similar cards specifically. People were making negate boards when Raigeki and change of heart etc were all banned. It's just one of the strongest strategies.

Again it doesn't matter if negate boards are already the strongest strategy, single unsearchable powerspells in general further promote them, sure at the highest competitive levels nobody is going to want to rely on a raigeki when they could run handtraps or TTT or whatever instead, but I'm talking from a B01 ladder perspective.

honestly Raigeki wasn't even the best example i could have used but it's the only one relevant to the thread, evenly, change of heart, and especially Triple Tactics (both of them) are better examples.