New event shows that Master Duel would be better with the TCG format.

[Zephyr]

Title says it all, Master Duel's format is unbalanced and has been for years now. The new event, which uses the TCG format, makes it painfully obvious.

[.]

Originally posted by LeCroix:

do actually matters that much? is still a bo1 format so it need its own custom banlist to be balanced not a pure OCG or TCG banlist... also OCG better because electrumite...

Yes, Electrumite is clearly healthy! Nobody's bored by 5-10 minute first turn pendulums! Not a single person!

[Sov]

Originally posted by Garbage:

Originally posted by LeCroix:

do actually matters that much? is still a bo1 format so it need its own custom banlist to be balanced not a pure OCG or TCG banlist... also OCG better because electrumite...

Yes, Electrumite is clearly healthy! Nobody's bored by 5-10 minute first turn pendulums! Not a single person!

I agree, I am an Odd-Eyes player and I hate Electrumite... it was designed to be the "Ash Blossom" of Pendulums so EVERY Pendulum deck needed it and that's what I hate about Konami's business strategy. It's so predatory and runs on absolutely MUST HAVE cards that don't allow you to play the game without them.

That's all hand-traps are really, gates that stop people from playing unless they have that card. It's not a good way to run the game but its not like Konami has a choice, they have made power creep so bad through their own greed in this game that;

1. The game is decided on Turn 1
2. Everyone can summon 500+ monsters in infinite combo lines that hand traps are counteractive but utterly NEEDED to play.

You simply CANNOT play the game without hand traps and that is just terrible. People may argue that "other eras were just as bad" but that simply is not true. You could play with the cards you had bought and didn't need the most expensive cards in the game just to play the game.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Zephyr:

Originally posted by Filipino Enjoyer:

yap yap yap, yeah good to know ur trolling lol

i dunno how you can actually believe the trash ur spewing tbh

Typical yugioh player lmao.

You say I'm trolling and that I'm "spewing trash" even though I pointed out exactly why combo and handtraps are bad and floodgates are good. If calling anything you disagree with is "trash" and "trolling" helps you sleep at night, be my guest. Doesn't change the fact what I said was ultimately true, and you have no argument as to why it isn't.

yeah and i said exactly why you were wrong but it does take braincells to read and floodgate players aren't known for having a lot of them

[Sov]

Would it not be fair to say that both **certain** Floodgates and Hand Traps are equally as bad for the game as each other and leave it at that? Both are pretty toxic to the game as Floodgates have also been affected by power creep.

Cards like Skill Drain are offset by the fact they are traps, inherently slow, the same is true for anti-spell and imperial order... What I don't like is traps that let you play them from the hand because it defeats the object of a trap.

At this point, they might as well remove traps from the game and make every spell a quick play.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Vivas:

Would it not be fair to say that both **certain** Floodgates and Hand Traps are equally as bad for the game as each other and leave it at that? Both are pretty toxic to the game as Floodgates have also been affected by power creep.

Cards like Skill Drain are offset by the fact they are traps, inherently slow, the same is true for anti-spell and imperial order... What I don't like is traps that let you play them from the hand because it defeats the object of a trap.

At this point, they might as well remove traps from the game and make every spell a quick play.

handtraps can be played through, floodgates can't the majority of the time without a backrow blowout card, at that point ur not even playing the game ur just sitting there jerking yourself off while you floodgate you're opponent, at least combo decks have multiple interaction points or alternative ways of dealing with their board like drnm, handtraps ect ect, there is no playing the game against floodagates simple as that

[Sov]

Originally posted by Filipino Enjoyer:

Originally posted by Vivas:

Would it not be fair to say that both **certain** Floodgates and Hand Traps are equally as bad for the game as each other and leave it at that? Both are pretty toxic to the game as Floodgates have also been affected by power creep.

Cards like Skill Drain are offset by the fact they are traps, inherently slow, the same is true for anti-spell and imperial order... What I don't like is traps that let you play them from the hand because it defeats the object of a trap.

At this point, they might as well remove traps from the game and make every spell a quick play.

handtraps can be played through, floodgates can't the majority of the time without a backrow blowout card, at that point ur not even playing the game ur just sitting there jerking yourself off while you floodgate you're opponent, at least combo decks have multiple interaction points or alternative ways of dealing with their board like drnm, handtraps ect ect, there is no playing the game against floodagates simple as that

I find your logic a bit odd, it seems to me that both cards are an example of rampant power creep and greed from Konami. As I have said before, hand-traps are played because they are required, not because they are a fun and interactive part of the game.

I think a lot of people get this wrong... people are not looking for "fun and interactive". I think people mean "variety of plays". If somebody activates a hand-trap on you, there are only 2 cards I know of that can respond to that because spell speed rules, so your response is going to be predictable and obvious... it doesn't lend much to variety.

It's basically why a lot of modern YGO games feel the same, because its one player spamming and then a hand-trap or two and its over by turn 2. That really is not enjoyable for a vast quantity of people.

[Merilirem]

Originally posted by Filipino Enjoyer:

Originally posted by Vivas:

Would it not be fair to say that both **certain** Floodgates and Hand Traps are equally as bad for the game as each other and leave it at that? Both are pretty toxic to the game as Floodgates have also been affected by power creep.

Cards like Skill Drain are offset by the fact they are traps, inherently slow, the same is true for anti-spell and imperial order... What I don't like is traps that let you play them from the hand because it defeats the object of a trap.

At this point, they might as well remove traps from the game and make every spell a quick play.

handtraps can be played through, floodgates can't the majority of the time without a backrow blowout card, at that point ur not even playing the game ur just sitting there jerking yourself off while you floodgate you're opponent, at least combo decks have multiple interaction points or alternative ways of dealing with their board like drnm, handtraps ect ect, there is no playing the game against floodagates simple as that

Yep, that's pretty much it. The ideal for a hand trap is to ruin an opponents turn so they have to wait until next turn to pop off. The ideal for a floodgate is to stop the opponent from doing anything ever. The only reason we can set pass against floodgate decks is because there isn't a floodgate that stops it.

[Kaulu]

Originally posted by Vivas:

Originally posted by Filipino Enjoyer:

handtraps can be played through, floodgates can't the majority of the time without a backrow blowout card, at that point ur not even playing the game ur just sitting there jerking yourself off while you floodgate you're opponent, at least combo decks have multiple interaction points or alternative ways of dealing with their board like drnm, handtraps ect ect, there is no playing the game against floodagates simple as that

I find your logic a bit odd, it seems to me that both cards are an example of rampant power creep and greed from Konami. As I have said before, hand-traps are played because they are required, not because they are a fun and interactive part of the game.

I think a lot of people get this wrong... people are not looking for "fun and interactive". I think people mean "variety of plays". If somebody activates a hand-trap on you, there are only 2 cards I know of that can respond to that because spell speed rules, so your response is going to be predictable and obvious... it doesn't lend much to variety.

It's basically why a lot of modern YGO games feel the same, because its one player spamming and then a hand-trap or two and its over by turn 2. That really is not enjoyable for a vast quantity of people.

Only 2 cards? What? I assume you mean Called by and Crossout? Depending on the board state, you might have negates already on field, or trap cards like Gravediggers trap hole. Depending on the hand trap used, your own hand traps can be used to counter. Your opponent using hand traps will enable you to use cards like Triple Tactics Talent/Thrust, opening up new plays or resources. Hand traps can be played into, around, or outright negated much more easily than floodgates.

I do agree with your point though. Hand traps are viewed as essential, rather than fun. I don't think people generally enjoy winning off of Maxx C as opposed to what the idea of their deck actually is.

[.]

Originally posted by Merilirem:

Originally posted by Filipino Enjoyer:

handtraps can be played through, floodgates can't the majority of the time without a backrow blowout card, at that point ur not even playing the game ur just sitting there jerking yourself off while you floodgate you're opponent, at least combo decks have multiple interaction points or alternative ways of dealing with their board like drnm, handtraps ect ect, there is no playing the game against floodagates simple as that

Yep, that's pretty much it. The ideal for a hand trap is to ruin an opponents turn so they have to wait until next turn to pop off. The ideal for a floodgate is to stop the opponent from doing anything ever. The only reason we can set pass against floodgate decks is because there isn't a floodgate that stops it.

Half of the decks in the game play through the single disruption hand traps in the first place. Have you seen what happens if you ash against Mathmechs? Circular just allows them to pop off anyways. Branded? They'll have one of their many other starters to play through them. Labrynth? They barely care about hand traps and get set up anyhow...lest we talk about Called By The Grave and Crossout Designator.

And what if I don't draw those hand traps? Guess I'm screwed and have to sit through your boring-as-hell first turn as you set up with an omninegate and 3 disruptions at minimum, which makes it so...gasp...I can't play.

Combo players are literally incapable of looking themselves in the mirror and seeing that they do the same thing floodgate and stun players do, but with extra steps and with infinite more consistency.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Vivas:

Originally posted by Filipino Enjoyer:

handtraps can be played through, floodgates can't the majority of the time without a backrow blowout card, at that point ur not even playing the game ur just sitting there jerking yourself off while you floodgate you're opponent, at least combo decks have multiple interaction points or alternative ways of dealing with their board like drnm, handtraps ect ect, there is no playing the game against floodagates simple as that

I find your logic a bit odd, it seems to me that both cards are an example of rampant power creep and greed from Konami. As I have said before, hand-traps are played because they are required, not because they are a fun and interactive part of the game.

I think a lot of people get this wrong... people are not looking for "fun and interactive". I think people mean "variety of plays". If somebody activates a hand-trap on you, there are only 2 cards I know of that can respond to that because spell speed rules, so your response is going to be predictable and obvious... it doesn't lend much to variety.

It's basically why a lot of modern YGO games feel the same, because its one player spamming and then a hand-trap or two and its over by turn 2. That really is not enjoyable for a vast quantity of people.

Funny you mention that because "handtrap spamming" is a problem considering it's a hell of a lot more fun to the large majority than set 4 normal dyna

There's a hell of a lot more turns if both players handtrap than drawing duster against back row which is literally 2 turns

[Astrallight]

Originally posted by Garbage:

Originally posted by Merilirem:

Yep, that's pretty much it. The ideal for a hand trap is to ruin an opponents turn so they have to wait until next turn to pop off. The ideal for a floodgate is to stop the opponent from doing anything ever. The only reason we can set pass against floodgate decks is because there isn't a floodgate that stops it.

Half of the decks in the game play through the single disruption hand traps in the first place. Have you seen what happens if you ash against Mathmechs? Circular just allows them to pop off anyways. Branded? They'll have one of their many other starters to play through them. Labrynth? They barely care about hand traps and get set up anyhow...lest we talk about Called By The Grave and Crossout Designator.

And what if I don't draw those hand traps? Guess I'm screwed and have to sit through your boring-as-hell first turn as you set up with an omninegate and 3 disruptions at minimum, which makes it so...gasp...I can't play.

Combo players are literally incapable of looking themselves in the mirror and seeing that they do the same thing floodgate and stun players do, but with extra steps and with infinite more consistency.

And If I draw an out to your 3+ floodgate backrow and your Dino you will scoop out of the game cause now you cant play singleplayer YGH with your opponent that now can play his deck.
So overall you are not much better then those combo decks you complain about.

Combo and stun are both bad to face if you dont have an out to it so you are not much of an hero by playing stun decks. More like someone who just want turn off your opponents joystick everytime its his turn.

[.]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

Originally posted by Garbage:

Half of the decks in the game play through the single disruption hand traps in the first place. Have you seen what happens if you ash against Mathmechs? Circular just allows them to pop off anyways. Branded? They'll have one of their many other starters to play through them. Labrynth? They barely care about hand traps and get set up anyhow...lest we talk about Called By The Grave and Crossout Designator.

And what if I don't draw those hand traps? Guess I'm screwed and have to sit through your boring-as-hell first turn as you set up with an omninegate and 3 disruptions at minimum, which makes it so...gasp...I can't play.

Combo players are literally incapable of looking themselves in the mirror and seeing that they do the same thing floodgate and stun players do, but with extra steps and with infinite more consistency.

And If I draw an out to your 3+ floodgate backrow and your Dino you will scoop out of the game cause now you cant play singleplayer YGH with your opponent that now can play his deck.
So overall you are not much better then those combo decks you complain about.

Combo and stun are both bad to face if you dont have an out to it so you are not much of an hero by playing stun decks. More like someone who just want turn off your opponents joystick everytime its his turn.

You're acting as if anyone likes watching long solitaire turns. I won't scoop if it's a deck that respects my time and ends their turn after less than 5 summons.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Garbage:

Originally posted by Astrallight:

And If I draw an out to your 3+ floodgate backrow and your Dino you will scoop out of the game cause now you cant play singleplayer YGH with your opponent that now can play his deck.
So overall you are not much better then those combo decks you complain about.

Combo and stun are both bad to face if you dont have an out to it so you are not much of an hero by playing stun decks. More like someone who just want turn off your opponents joystick everytime its his turn.

You're acting as if anyone likes watching long solitaire turns. I won't scoop if it's a deck that respects my time and ends their turn after less than 5 summons.

So you scoop against every deck, gotcha

[Astrallight]

Originally posted by Garbage:

Originally posted by Astrallight:

And If I draw an out to your 3+ floodgate backrow and your Dino you will scoop out of the game cause now you cant play singleplayer YGH with your opponent that now can play his deck.
So overall you are not much better then those combo decks you complain about.

Combo and stun are both bad to face if you dont have an out to it so you are not much of an hero by playing stun decks. More like someone who just want turn off your opponents joystick everytime its his turn.

You're acting as if anyone likes watching long solitaire turns. I won't scoop if it's a deck that respects my time and ends their turn after less than 5 summons.

And people will play with you if you respect his time aswell It goes both ways. Locking 80% of his deck down with floodgates wont give you many people to play with.

Again you are not a hero just because you play stun. If you want someone to play with you you play a deck that does what you ask for yourself but without floodgates.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by LokiTheVile:

Originally posted by Zephyr:

Because it's a 1200 monster that prevents normal summons in a game where normal summons can easily be 1600 if not more.

And if that's the case all handtraps should be limited to 1 or banned as well since they're worse to deal with and more pervasive.

I don't disagree with you about handtraps. Maxx c should be banned. Ash blossom should be at 1 and called by should be banned.

Super poly should be banned and evenly matched should be banned. You should only be able to make up to 5 summons per turn... there's a lot of changes I'd make If I made the rules.

Huh, agreed.