Why do people complain about Maxx C instead of Ash Blossom?

[Supermaori]

Ash Blossom is basically a spoiler. While Maxx C makes the game more interactive, this card just blocks the progress of the game. Unlike Effect Veiller or Infinite Impermanence, it can stop almost everything while very few cards can counter the negation. Most importantly, Ash isn't stopping the crazy solitaire summoning in many cases, more like it's protecting solitaire players from Maxx C. This card should be banned.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by Barbatos:

yeah and maxx c does what ash does but significantly worse for the game lol, ash isn't even that good and half the decks in the game wouldn't run it if they didin't have to because of maxx c lmao

Really? I rather run 3 Ash and less Maxx C. My Maxx C effect is always stopped/countered by many popular cards while Ash isn't. Also against Labynth and Branded, Maxx C doesn't do much while Ash works really well. Maxx C is way overrated. It only works for brainless summoners.

just because it always gets stopped for you doesn't mean its not the single best card in the game lol, there's a reason why it has a 94% usage rate @ 3, the only decks who don't run it are stun decks, you chain it to a summon and its already neutral, ends the turn there, plus the existence of maxx c means you have to run ash/maxx c/ called by and crossout just for the stupid card, the fact you can't see that means that you're just some silver scrub where even with 15 cards people are too bad at the game to be able to to kill even with a +15 or the decks are so bad down there that they're too bad to special summon

[skill issue]

nice bait

[TormentedSalad]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

I encountered many games that is going to flip, turn the tide, but all the sudden, Ash comes from no where to stop that. While Maxx C is providing options, and 99% of players use many copies of it, I really don't understand people saying that Ash is ok. At least can you agree that Ash is spoiling the fun because it makes the game more one-sided?

Ash is interaction you trade her to stop 1 action maxx c draws you 5 cards think about it.

Ash also isn't good vs everything swordsoul is an example of a deck that doesn't really care if you ban the bug ash blossom will see less play because she's a choice

[Supermaori]

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Originally posted by Supermaori:

I encountered many games that is going to flip, turn the tide, but all the sudden, Ash comes from no where to stop that. While Maxx C is providing options, and 99% of players use many copies of it, I really don't understand people saying that Ash is ok. At least can you agree that Ash is spoiling the fun because it makes the game more one-sided?

Ash is interaction you trade her to stop 1 action maxx c draws you 5 cards think about it.

Ash also isn't good vs everything swordsoul is an example of a deck that doesn't really care if you ban the bug ash blossom will see less play because she's a choice

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

[76561199378662608]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Ash is interaction you trade her to stop 1 action maxx c draws you 5 cards think about it.

Ash also isn't good vs everything swordsoul is an example of a deck that doesn't really care if you ban the bug ash blossom will see less play because she's a choice

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

So what if your opponent finished their combo and then next in your turn they activate their max c where you got no Ash in your hand.

[Vento]

unless you're playing one of the few archetypes that only play normal it goes like this:
- you summon, they draw you pass turn and lose.
- you don't summon, pass turn, you get full combo'd on and die.

the other fun scenario is: i full combo you, pass turn, maxx c you in draw phase, then it goes:
- you play into it and lose, cause you're giving me hand trap gas and you've to boardbreak on 6 cards.
- you pass back and lose

that card reads: if you don't have the out gg go next and you don't have to work for it or put up a strategy, it's in your hand and you can fire it for free, this card literally decides most games at the get go.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Ash is interaction you trade her to stop 1 action maxx c draws you 5 cards think about it.

Ash also isn't good vs everything swordsoul is an example of a deck that doesn't really care if you ban the bug ash blossom will see less play because she's a choice

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

Beside the fact you seem to have missed my question, you seem to believe that "interaction" means to put the opponent between a rock and a hard place by giving them the illusion of choice.
- Do I keep summoning and lose to card advantage?
- Do I stop and lose to having nothing to defend myself with?

The last time I've seen someone play through Maxx "C" and win without just using floodgates was someone from the forum playing Swordsoul against a moron who didn't understand his options as a Dragon Link player, because only from seeing his hand size and the cards he played, there were like many many options that could've been used to make plays there.

Ash Blossom is a strong card, but she trades 1 for 1 in most cases, and while there's fewer cards that counter her, there's also something else that can be done against her, which is, baiting her.

Say I play Evil Twins, which is a deck I often play, I activate Secret Password to add an Evil/Live Twin Spell/Trap from my deck to hand, you Ash it, I normal summon my Twin and go full combo. You wasted the Ash, congrats. Or the other way around, I summon my Twin, you Ash it, I play Secret Password, grab Sunny's Snitch, then grab either Kis-Sikil Frost or Lil-La Treat, depending on which Twin I summoned first, and Ash is again, useless.

I didn't use any card to "counter" your Ash, I just played around the possibility of her being there, and I was rewarded for it.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by IsZ:

Originally posted by Supermaori:

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

So what if your opponent finished their combo and then next in your turn they activate their max c where you got no Ash in your hand.

doesn't even matter if you ash them because its getting negated anyway

[TormentedSalad]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Ash is interaction you trade her to stop 1 action maxx c draws you 5 cards think about it.

Ash also isn't good vs everything swordsoul is an example of a deck that doesn't really care if you ban the bug ash blossom will see less play because she's a choice

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

and there it is you have the problem the response to maxx C is to stop playing and considering alot of people maxx C in draw phase to get around triple tactics talent and hit kashtira summons given its not too complicated for most decks to put up 8000 damage even through a hand trap or two depending on the deck, it doesnt even have to be that many cards if you special summon twice under maxx C potentially being a summon they chain it to and then 1 more its already pot of greed a banned card do it once more and very few cards in this game say draw 3.

[Supermaori]

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Originally posted by Supermaori:

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

and there it is you have the problem the response to maxx C is to stop playing and considering alot of people maxx C in draw phase to get around triple tactics talent and hit kashtira summons given its not too complicated for most decks to put up 8000 damage even through a hand trap or two depending on the deck, it doesnt even have to be that many cards if you special summon twice under maxx C potentially being a summon they chain it to and then 1 more its already pot of greed a banned card do it once more and very few cards in this game say draw 3.

Summoning 3 is the same value as your opponent gets 3 cards. If you have 4 monsters, you can summon Mekk-Knight or Accesscode, which are basically invincible and OTK. If Maxx C is gone like TCG, who is gonna punish such OP combos that shouldn't happen this frequently? For punishing brainless summoning spam, Maxx C is a great card.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

and there it is you have the problem the response to maxx C is to stop playing and considering alot of people maxx C in draw phase to get around triple tactics talent and hit kashtira summons given its not too complicated for most decks to put up 8000 damage even through a hand trap or two depending on the deck, it doesnt even have to be that many cards if you special summon twice under maxx C potentially being a summon they chain it to and then 1 more its already pot of greed a banned card do it once more and very few cards in this game say draw 3.

Summoning 3 is the same value as your opponent gets 3 cards. If you have 4 monsters, you can summon Mekk-Knight or Accesscode, which are basically invincible and OTK. If Maxx C is gone like TCG, who is gonna punish such OP combos that shouldn't happen this frequently? For punishing brainless summoning spam, Maxx C is a great card.

accesscode is really not "invincible" nor otk, has no protection and no negates, toggle on and pop it before it can activate easy, tcg has the correct approach on the roach, its been banned there since like 2015 only ocg pilled players and bad players want maxx c gone because bad players dont actually understand how important card advantage is

[TormentedSalad]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

and there it is you have the problem the response to maxx C is to stop playing and considering alot of people maxx C in draw phase to get around triple tactics talent and hit kashtira summons given its not too complicated for most decks to put up 8000 damage even through a hand trap or two depending on the deck, it doesnt even have to be that many cards if you special summon twice under maxx C potentially being a summon they chain it to and then 1 more its already pot of greed a banned card do it once more and very few cards in this game say draw 3.

Summoning 3 is the same value as your opponent gets 3 cards. If you have 4 monsters, you can summon Mekk-Knight or Accesscode, which are basically invincible and OTK. If Maxx C is gone like TCG, who is gonna punish such OP combos that shouldn't happen this frequently? For punishing brainless summoning spam, Maxx C is a great card.

I would argue often those 3 cards are stronger than summoning 3 monsters to use an example marincess goes 5+ summons to end on a spell/trap negate towers with a searchable imperm can you honestly say that is better than going +5 and that is one example.

Avramax is tricky if summoned properly but sorry accesscode is anything but invincible it has no inbuilt protection and people certainly are not in a habit of making it with I:P to give it any.

[Supermaori]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Originally posted by Supermaori:

You can draw 5 cards because your opponent didn't stop summoning for some reason.

Beside the fact you seem to have missed my question, you seem to believe that "interaction" means to put the opponent between a rock and a hard place by giving them the illusion of choice.
- Do I keep summoning and lose to card advantage?
- Do I stop and lose to having nothing to defend myself with?

The last time I've seen someone play through Maxx "C" and win without just using floodgates was someone from the forum playing Swordsoul against a moron who didn't understand his options as a Dragon Link player, because only from seeing his hand size and the cards he played, there were like many many options that could've been used to make plays there.

Ash Blossom is a strong card, but she trades 1 for 1 in most cases, and while there's fewer cards that counter her, there's also something else that can be done against her, which is, baiting her.

Say I play Evil Twins, which is a deck I often play, I activate Secret Password to add an Evil/Live Twin Spell/Trap from my deck to hand, you Ash it, I normal summon my Twin and go full combo. You wasted the Ash, congrats. Or the other way around, I summon my Twin, you Ash it, I play Secret Password, grab Sunny's Snitch, then grab either Kis-Sikil Frost or Lil-La Treat, depending on which Twin I summoned first, and Ash is again, useless.

I didn't use any card to "counter" your Ash, I just played around the possibility of her being there, and I was rewarded for it.

I know you can bait them sometimes, but what if that's your only option like in late game? Ash does nothing but spoil the fun, also the card encourages players to build decks that are focused on summoning the same archetype rapidly. Konami is also forced to make more summing options like 2nd Welcome Labyrinth to make the game more one sided if their opponent didn't have Ash. So I'm saying that they should get rid of it then reconsider the fundamental balance of the game.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Supermaori:

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Beside the fact you seem to have missed my question, you seem to believe that "interaction" means to put the opponent between a rock and a hard place by giving them the illusion of choice.
- Do I keep summoning and lose to card advantage?
- Do I stop and lose to having nothing to defend myself with?

The last time I've seen someone play through Maxx "C" and win without just using floodgates was someone from the forum playing Swordsoul against a moron who didn't understand his options as a Dragon Link player, because only from seeing his hand size and the cards he played, there were like many many options that could've been used to make plays there.

Ash Blossom is a strong card, but she trades 1 for 1 in most cases, and while there's fewer cards that counter her, there's also something else that can be done against her, which is, baiting her.

Say I play Evil Twins, which is a deck I often play, I activate Secret Password to add an Evil/Live Twin Spell/Trap from my deck to hand, you Ash it, I normal summon my Twin and go full combo. You wasted the Ash, congrats. Or the other way around, I summon my Twin, you Ash it, I play Secret Password, grab Sunny's Snitch, then grab either Kis-Sikil Frost or Lil-La Treat, depending on which Twin I summoned first, and Ash is again, useless.

I didn't use any card to "counter" your Ash, I just played around the possibility of her being there, and I was rewarded for it.

I know you can bait them sometimes, but what if that's your only option like in late game? Ash does nothing but spoil the fun, also the card encourages players to build decks that are focused on summoning the same archetype rapidly. Konami is also forced to make more summing options like 2nd Welcome Labyrinth to make the game more one sided if their opponent didn't have Ash. So I'm saying that they should get rid of it then reconsider the fundamental balance of the game.

If you reached "late game" and your only plays dies to an Ash, Ash isn't the problem, what you need to start asking is why did the game reach that stage where 1 interruption is a make or break, and if there's anything you could've done to prevent the game reaching that stage.

Cards shouldn't be banned on "what if" scenarios, because if we go by "what if", even Kuriboh is a problem card, because "what if your opponent is gonna lose to this direct attack, but they also have this spell card that will deal enough damage to kill me when my turn ends, so if they play Kuriboh to stop the damage from my direct attack, I lose the game, so Kuriboh spoils the fun".

Hell, same logic can apply to the OG Trap Hole, "what if the game reaches that late game where your only options the monster you just topdecked and your opponent plays Trap Hole on it and you lose because of it? Trap Hole only spoils the fun".

Also, you still didn't answer me what deck are you playing?

[Supermaori]

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

I would argue often those 3 cards are stronger than summoning 3 monsters to use an example marincess goes 5+ summons to end on a spell/trap negate towers with a searchable imperm can you honestly say that is better than going +5 and that is one example.

Avramax is tricky if summoned properly but sorry accesscode is anything but invincible it has no inbuilt protection and people certainly are not in a habit of making it with I:P to give it any.

I don't know about marincess much, but if they can search their traps while making the strong board, their opponent should have more chance to draw for making the game fair. I can't imagine the way to overcome such board without the effect of Maxx C.