Why do people complain about Maxx C instead of Ash Blossom?

[Supermaori]

Ash Blossom is basically a spoiler. While Maxx C makes the game more interactive, this card just blocks the progress of the game. Unlike Effect Veiller or Infinite Impermanence, it can stop almost everything while very few cards can counter the negation. Most importantly, Ash isn't stopping the crazy solitaire summoning in many cases, more like it's protecting solitaire players from Maxx C. This card should be banned.

[Dzuy Dzuy]

I like getting an award hehêheh

[TormentedSalad]

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

Publicado originalmente por Papa Shekels:

I managed to pull a danger thunderbird early on in my masochist account, which has proven to be a huge staple to this day. I thought ashing dangers was just a meme, but you would not believe how many times it has happened on the way up to platinum. Easily a double digit count by now

People still fails to not put cards into imperm zone or use Max C in draw phase on his opponents turn when it was called on turn 1. Or people Ash his own Max C

Even saw a Lab player Ash his own Welcome Lab card and scooped right after.

Just last night I was playing Ghoti vs Burger deck and he used the link monster to try and shuffle my Baroone away but nothing happened. Cause he forgot Accel Synchro Stardust Dragon makes Baroone uneffected the turn its summoned by that effect.

I think it's more likely he didn't read stardust even did that

[FlintX]

Nah, both cards are equally stupid.
Both were crafted as a mean to fix the game Konami broke and they end up breaking the game even more, that's the point son. And then after this point they crafted even more similar cards or straight put their effects into entire archtypes and monsters as an innate effect.
And that's how we ended up playing decks that only has like 10 themed cards, and all the other 30 are generic handtraps to survive turn 1.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Publicado originalmente por FlintX:

Nah, both cards are equally stupid.
Both were crafted as a mean to fix the game Konami broke and they end up breaking the game even more, that's the point son. And then after this point they crafted even more similar cards or straight put their effects into entire archtypes and monsters as an innate effect.
And that's how we ended up playing decks that only has like 10 themed cards, and all the other 30 are generic handtraps to survive turn 1.

nah the reason you dont see full gas decks is because maxx c exclusively, it counters full gas decks and every other deck needs to make space for 10 cards to counter and play the roach

[Kane526]

Friendly reminder that the TCG has been seeing Ash get played in the Side more and more often, and the TCG has had the roach banned for quite some time. TCG players have found that sometimes, extra combo pieces are more important and potentially top decking an Ash when they need a different card is really unfortunate. Ash's presence would also drop in MD if Maxx C were banned. People will still use Ash, but it will be like other hand traps like Imperm, where you still see it but it stops feeling mandatory.

Killing the Roach diminishes the presence of Ass Blast 'Em and No Joy, therefore, everyone is happy.

[¿¡Kloey!?²]

Publicado originalmente por Prokaizer:

It's always funny when net deckers throw the skill issue around. Like buddy, anyone can copy paste the best deck and win, skill has nothing to do with it. This is not an Arcade nor an first person shooter game where skills matter. Power creep is the only thing that matters. You try to make yourselves look smart, yet you make your selves look like a fool.

Low hanging bait but I'll bite. Sure, card games don't require the same skills arcades, fighters, fps, etc. games do but to say that a game requires no skill is not only the cheapest form of a fallacy but also is insulting to actual competitive players who dedicate their time to prove themselves at their hobby/passion. Powercreep is not the end all be all and is just a result of lack of foresight or a means to artificially steer the game in a new direction (or just bad game design). Powercreep happens in almost every long running game that isn't properly self contained, we've seen it in Smash, PKMN TCG, LoL, etc. It's the way the community handles the powercreep is what determines how strong something inherently is once people have gotten used to it and come up with new ways and strategies to handle it or embrace it full force. If I can sit here and beat top tier meta decks with jank bricky messes like thunder dragon bystials; unless you are running inherently bad or completely outdated strategies (for example battling boxer so just because you could doesnt mean you should) thats on you.

As much as I used to sling around skill issue I've learned it's moreso a difference an opinion (sometimes with a hint of skill issue, not gonna cap.) It's again in my previous post here is why Maxx C takes no skill to begin with as it gives you advantage, the strongest resource in Yugioh, for the low cost of absolutely nothing and your opponent as I said has to deal with it or deal with it. Ash blossom at the VERY least requires some idea of what your opponent is playing, the line they are trying to set up and where to try and cut them at. Sure you can throw it out willynilly and have it still work but most of the time it isn't going to stop your opponent from at least setting up a decent board if they drew well enough; which if it did have the power to outright stop them from playing the game, Ash would be on the chopping block just as well. Yes, Maxx C and Ash are symptoms of a bigger problem with the inherent design of YuGiOh, I don't think anyone is willing to deny that at face value, but there is something different than using an in engine card to gain advantage then using a no cost advantage generic bug to give you more tries, sometimes as a crutch as OP has been describing or to simply oppress your opponent (in the case of a turn 1 player using it on turn 2 with an already established board) for the sheer audacity for playing the game as intended.

[TormentedSalad]

Publicado originalmente por Kane526:

Friendly reminder that the TCG has been seeing Ash get played in the Side more and more often, and the TCG has had the roach banned for quite some time. TCG players have found that sometimes, extra combo pieces are more important and potentially top decking an Ash when they need a different card is really unfortunate. Ash's presence would also drop in MD if Maxx C were banned. People will still use Ash, but it will be like other hand traps like Imperm, where you still see it but it stops feeling mandatory.

Killing the Roach diminishes the presence of Ass Blast 'Em and No Joy, therefore, everyone is happy.

Banning maxx c is the biggest plunder buff ever no more solemn strike hand trap

[Astrallight]

Publicado originalmente por Kane526:

Friendly reminder that the TCG has been seeing Ash get played in the Side more and more often, and the TCG has had the roach banned for quite some time. TCG players have found that sometimes, extra combo pieces are more important and potentially top decking an Ash when they need a different card is really unfortunate. Ash's presence would also drop in MD if Maxx C were banned. People will still use Ash, but it will be like other hand traps like Imperm, where you still see it but it stops feeling mandatory.

Killing the Roach diminishes the presence of Ass Blast 'Em and No Joy, therefore, everyone is happy.

What about CBTG. How much is that been played at 1 in TCG cause that one is 100% tired to both Max C and Ash. I see they also got Crossout at 3.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

Publicado originalmente por Kane526:

Friendly reminder that the TCG has been seeing Ash get played in the Side more and more often, and the TCG has had the roach banned for quite some time. TCG players have found that sometimes, extra combo pieces are more important and potentially top decking an Ash when they need a different card is really unfortunate. Ash's presence would also drop in MD if Maxx C were banned. People will still use Ash, but it will be like other hand traps like Imperm, where you still see it but it stops feeling mandatory.

Killing the Roach diminishes the presence of Ass Blast 'Em and No Joy, therefore, everyone is happy.

What about CBTG. How much is that been played at 1 in TCG cause that one is 100% tired to both Max C and Ash. I see they also got Crossout at 3.

Crossout is barely played in the TCG despite being at 3 because there simply aren't enough cards that everyone runs for it to be worth it.

Occasionally Marincess runs it, and some other strategies but rarely.

Called By The Grave is also not really ran, because a single hand trap stopped simply isn't worth it. It's mostly run in stuff that completely dies to something like a Droll & Lock Bird. It's just a card that's too good to be at more than 1.

[Papa Shekels]

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

What about CBTG. How much is that been played at 1 in TCG cause that one is 100% tired to both Max C and Ash. I see they also got Crossout at 3.

Crossout is at 3 and never sees play, except for maybe in like branded to stop dimensional barrier. Called by is a good card but I don't think it sees much play as a sacky 1-of. It can't even be searched by thrust. Worth also noting for the point of the thread that all of them had 3 ash in main deck, and everybody had 3 nibiru (3 mained it, 1 sided).

I just checked the top 4 deck lists from richmond. Two people had called by the grave in the side, 1 person had 3 crossouts in the side. Nobody mained either of them. I checked a few deck profile videos (since the lists aren't on konami's side beyond top 4) and only saw one additional person maining called by, no crossouts

[HeraldOfOpera]

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

Publicado originalmente por Kane526:

Friendly reminder that the TCG has been seeing Ash get played in the Side more and more often, and the TCG has had the roach banned for quite some time. TCG players have found that sometimes, extra combo pieces are more important and potentially top decking an Ash when they need a different card is really unfortunate. Ash's presence would also drop in MD if Maxx C were banned. People will still use Ash, but it will be like other hand traps like Imperm, where you still see it but it stops feeling mandatory.

Killing the Roach diminishes the presence of Ass Blast 'Em and No Joy, therefore, everyone is happy.

What about CBTG. How much is that been played at 1 in TCG cause that one is 100% tired to both Max C and Ash. I see they also got Crossout at 3.

There are rogue decks that actually do the whole "board full of negates" but die to a single handtrap. Those run CBTG, but nobody else finds the 1-for-1 trade worthwhile.

Likewise, Crossout Designator only functions properly when there's a card in the format that basically autowins on resolution (and which is therefore run by absolutely everybody), or in tier 0 formats where the only thing worth preparing for is the mirror. The OCG limited it because both of those are a constant problem for them, but in a saner world nobody would ever consider using it.

[big chicken]

I love this forum

[Ghojhiuz]

players don’t play because it’s dirty turn interrupt, I’ve been interrupted 13 times in a single turn with Quick effects, this has already become a serious problem.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Publicado originalmente por HeraldOfOpera:

Publicado originalmente por Astrallight:

What about CBTG. How much is that been played at 1 in TCG cause that one is 100% tired to both Max C and Ash. I see they also got Crossout at 3.

There are rogue decks that actually do the whole "board full of negates" but die to a single handtrap. Those run CBTG, but nobody else finds the 1-for-1 trade worthwhile.

Likewise, Crossout Designator only functions properly when there's a card in the format that basically autowins on resolution (and which is therefore run by absolutely everybody), or in tier 0 formats where the only thing worth preparing for is the mirror. The OCG limited it because both of those are a constant problem for them, but in a saner world nobody would ever consider using it.

Except Floo. Floo LOVE Crossout since it functions as a ROTA for them, if you have another smol birb in hand as well as being anti-hand trap.

[Papa Shekels]

Publicado originalmente por Bad Distraction Carnifex:

Except Floo. Floo LOVE Crossout since it functions as a ROTA for them, if you have another smol birb in hand as well as being anti-hand trap.

It doesn't really work like that. Crossout negates its effect until the end of the turn. The only way it works is if they already have a turn 1 play that allows them to set up so that they can also grab the bird next turn...which doesn't really mesh with the way floo plays. Metaphys, on the other hand, absolutely uses crossout as a starter because all their cards sit there doing jack until the next turn anyway