Now I get it...

[Neo Black]

After playing for 100h I now understand why some people don't like Master Duel or Yu-Ghi-Oh anymore.
At first I was ok with meta: every game have it, but season after season, event after event I struggle to get even a single one reward when facing some meta Deck and it would be ok if it wasn't so common.
It's like playing a League of Legend game but the enemy team play all Master Yi with the same build while you are trying the new champ, or it's like going to the EVO Tournment just to sit and watch 4 hours of players who both play Ryu and spam Hadoken.
What I'm trying to say is FOR FU*CK SAKE THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 12K CARDS AND EVERYBODY PLAY THE EXACT SAME DECK
EVERY!
SINGLE!!
TIME!!!
Like, bro It's ok if you like Tearlment. I get it, everybody likes winning but can't you just squize your brain a little and see if you can improve or adapt the gameplay by mixmatching those fu**ing cards???
When I was a kid it was so much fun spending hours to figure out how to turn the garbage you just pulled out into something efficient. That's how I still do, that's how I got my way trough Gold even with the actual meta Decks.
I'm not here complaining about Konami relasing stuff too powerfull (even if may look that way) I'm complaining about people having zero originality, being boring and wasting my time.

[Lucifer]

These losers play meta decks even in casual, there is no saving them.

[Neo Black]

Originally posted by Lucifer:

These losers play meta decks even in casual, there is no saving them.

Ah right, forgot about that and honestly I would have preferred not to remember: I use casual match to test decks or use old Structure, no need to say more.

[Yerc2]

The game balance and banlist are bad, and there is no incentive to play unique decks apart from fun, but fun is subjective, and winning helps you get rewards faster.

I don't really blame people for netdecking meta decks so they can win more.
Rather, I think the fault lies with Konami since they're the ones who enable and direct the general direction gameplay through the cards/decks they create/ban.

[Papa Shekels]

The 12k cards argument has never been a meaningful one, we have 12k cards that have been printed over the course of 20+ years with many of them being obsolete at the time of printing. I'm sorry to say that there is no reason for anybody to play twin long rods #2, or ally of justice thunder armor, or solomon's lawbook. These kinds of cards were designed for casual play, like we did as kids just using whatever we had from a handful of booster packs and a tin on the playground. This game isn't about casual play, they give you the tools to optimize your deck so obviously people are going to do that when you're stepping into ranked mode or the qualifier for a world tournament.

With that said, there is still plenty of variety in the game. Maybe you're not looking too closely for it, but even the tear decks you run across are very different from each other. I played a few games in plat yesterday to test a new deck and ran into:

Tri-Brigade Lyrilusc
Burn
Numbers Eveil Rhongo
Ghoti
Branded Despia
Ishizu Vernusylph Adamancipator
Endymion
Branded Dragonmaids
Ghoti
Treasure Panda Exodia

Out of 10 games, the only duplicate was ghoti, unless you count two completely different versions of branded. Didn't see a single tearlaments deck despite that being the meta right now

[Astrallight]

Reason why you ony see the same decks day after day is because most vanilla decks are locked behind legacy tickets or Master packs. They dont even got a secret pack you can open and craft them. And on top most people only play newer decks now so you will always face the same 10 decks that most play. Banlists are purely made to make sure broken decks sells for as long as possible until they decide to nerf it next year. Its all about money.

I was actually hoping to have a chance to make Bakuras Necrofear deck when I started playing this but then I found out its locked behind legacy tickets that you need to farm or craft all cards yourself.

You cant play old school decks anymore cause powercreep has risen to huge lvls that vanilla decks now dont stand a chance. One of the reasons you dont see them anymore hence why we got 12000 cards but only 1% of them are actually used cause powercreep is how it is now. All the vanilla cards just got powercreept out of the game.

[dabestgamer]

Originally posted by Neo Black:

What I'm trying to say is FOR FU*CK SAKE THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 12K CARDS AND EVERYBODY PLAY THE EXACT SAME DECK
EVERY!
SINGLE!!
TIME!!!

This doesn't really work when it's 10000+ cards in a game that has seen progressively stronger cards/Decks released as the years passed, resulting in existing stuff typically falling behind. (Just having a big card pool doesn't magically mean you can make anything that can keep up with the strongest Decks.)

Originally posted by Neo Black:

I get it, everybody likes winning but can't you just squize your brain a little and see if you can improve or adapt the gameplay by mixmatching those fu**ing cards???

People have probably tried. And saw less than ideal results.

Originally posted by Neo Black:

When I was a kid it was so much fun spending hours to figure out how to turn the garbage you just pulled out into something efficient.

I would guess that if it fought against the top Deck(s) of the time, it would lose against them more than it won. People that could aim to get the best Deck(s) at the time did so even while others were under the constraints of... well... being a kid and not being able to freely spend as much as others. I would also guess that the lack of internet access and/or lack of actually getting that information (whether it's lack of desire to, not caring, or not knowing how, etc.), or if they just didn't know better with a certain card(s) in how effectively they can be used, also had an impact.

[Angel]

don't hate the players hate the game

[JJJohnson]

Originally posted by Neo Black:

After playing for 100h I now understand why some people don't like Master Duel or Yu-Ghi-Oh anymore.
At first I was ok with meta: every game have it, but season after season, event after event I struggle to get even a single one reward when facing some meta Deck and it would be ok if it wasn't so common.
It's like playing a League of Legend game but the enemy team play all Master Yi with the same build while you are trying the new champ, or it's like going to the EVO Tournment just to sit and watch 4 hours of players who both play Ryu and spam Hadoken.
What I'm trying to say is FOR FU*CK SAKE THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 12K CARDS AND EVERYBODY PLAY THE EXACT SAME DECK
EVERY!
SINGLE!!
TIME!!!
Like, bro It's ok if you like Tearlment. I get it, everybody likes winning but can't you just squize your brain a little and see if you can improve or adapt the gameplay by mixmatching those fu**ing cards???
When I was a kid it was so much fun spending hours to figure out how to turn the garbage you just pulled out into something efficient. That's how I still do, that's how I got my way trough Gold even with the actual meta Decks.
I'm not here complaining about Konami relasing stuff too powerfull (even if may look that way) I'm complaining about people having zero originality, being boring and wasting my time.

hear hear

[Neo Black]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

The 12k cards argument has never been a meaningful one, we have 12k cards that have been printed over the course of 20+ years with many of them being obsolete at the time of printing. I'm sorry to say that there is no reason for anybody to play twin long rods #2, or ally of justice thunder armor, or solomon's lawbook. These kinds of cards were designed for casual play, like we did as kids just using whatever we had from a handful of booster packs and a tin on the playground. This game isn't about casual play, they give you the tools to optimize your deck so obviously people are going to do that when you're stepping into ranked mode or the qualifier for a world tournament.

With that said, there is still plenty of variety in the game. Maybe you're not looking too closely for it, but even the tear decks you run across are very different from each other. I played a few games in plat yesterday to test a new deck and ran into:

Tri-Brigade Lyrilusc
Burn
Numbers Eveil Rhongo
Ghoti
Branded Despia
Ishizu Vernusylph Adamancipator
Endymion
Branded Dragonmaids
Ghoti
Treasure Panda Exodia

Out of 10 games, the only duplicate was ghoti, unless you count two completely different versions of branded. Didn't see a single tearlaments deck despite that being the meta right now

All right all right, let's say the "worthy" cards are less than 12k excluding most of normal monsters made for the first edition of the game but there's still a lot of archetype and Structure, also Deck based or a direct copy of characters from the series. I see nobody playing those cards in Ranked (no actually some months ago found one or two Hero Decks).
On the variety, this may be just concidence but I only see the most known mix of said cards, along from the one you mentioned I could add Grave Gurdians or Marinprincess but it is nothing but another meta strategy you see in lots and lots of videos on the subject. What I mean those Decks are berely accountable to a specific player or playstyle cause you will eventually run on another one (probably the same recipe) and you'll say "Ah so Tribrigate and Tearlment so your next move will be..."
I'd like to see more Decks based around a very specific strategy or the use of a mix of cards not belonging to an Archetype even if made as an anti-archetype. Dunno if I express myself clearly.

[Neo Black]

Originally posted by Angel:

don't hate the players hate the game

I Don't hate the players cause I can relate them, I don't hate the game because it is a very good one (maybe not like Tag Force, especially for the loading times when switching from a menu to another).
I can hate Konami. Yes, I can totally do that.

[Neo Black]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

Reason why you ony see the same decks day after day is because most vanilla decks are locked behind legacy tickets or Master packs. They dont even got a secret pack you can open and craft them. And on top most people only play newer decks now so you will always face the same 10 decks that most play. Banlists are purely made to make sure broken decks sells for as long as possible until they decide to nerf it next year. Its all about money.

I was actually hoping to have a chance to make Bakuras Necrofear deck when I started playing this but then I found out its locked behind legacy tickets that you need to farm or craft all cards yourself.

You cant play old school decks anymore cause powercreep has risen to huge lvls that vanilla decks now dont stand a chance. One of the reasons you dont see them anymore hence why we got 12000 cards but only 1% of them are actually used cause powercreep is how it is now. All the vanilla cards just got powercreept out of the game.

The craft thing sometimes is a pain but I think they are still pretty accessible. I made Duel Kingdom Yugi, Bastion Hydrogeddon and Hasslebeery Decks and as much I can remembrer I didn't really bought packs. Not sure but I guess most of the Craft Point came from Free Pass and other by refurbishing cards I don't care. But I'd like to see those kind of Decks sold as structure in the shop.

[Neo Black]

Originally posted by dabestgamer:

Originally posted by Neo Black:

What I'm trying to say is FOR FU*CK SAKE THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 12K CARDS AND EVERYBODY PLAY THE EXACT SAME DECK
EVERY!
SINGLE!!
TIME!!!

This doesn't really work when it's 10000+ cards in a game that has seen progressively stronger cards/Decks released as the years passed, resulting in existing stuff typically falling behind. (Just having a big card pool doesn't magically mean you can make anything that can keep up with the strongest Decks.)

Originally posted by Neo Black:

I get it, everybody likes winning but can't you just squize your brain a little and see if you can improve or adapt the gameplay by mixmatching those fu**ing cards???

People have probably tried. And saw less than ideal results.

Originally posted by Neo Black:

When I was a kid it was so much fun spending hours to figure out how to turn the garbage you just pulled out into something efficient.

I would guess that if it fought against the top Deck(s) of the time, it would lose against them more than it won. People that could aim to get the best Deck(s) at the time did so even while others were under the constraints of... well... being a kid and not being able to freely spend as much as others. I would also guess that the lack of internet access and/or lack of actually getting that information (whether it's lack of desire to, not caring, or not knowing how, etc.), or if they just didn't know better with a certain card(s) in how effectively they can be used, also had an impact.

Disagree on point 1
Probably right point 2 but I have my doubt
(Partially)Disagree on point 3: Had totally garbage cards, old, obsolete, mostly made of normal magics and normal monsters still managed to defeat a deck containing the newly released Dark Monarch alongside with other decks.
It's true that access to internat probably prevented kids on searching "how to always win at YuGhiOh without tearing my opponent cards"

[Papa Shekels]

Originally posted by Neo Black:

All right all right, let's say the "worthy" cards are less than 12k excluding most of normal monsters made for the first edition of the game but there's still a lot of archetype and Structure, also Deck based or a direct copy of characters from the series. I see nobody playing those cards in Ranked (no actually some months ago found one or two Hero Decks).
On the variety, this may be just concidence but I only see the most known mix of said cards, along from the one you mentioned I could add Grave Gurdians or Marinprincess but it is nothing but another meta strategy you see in lots and lots of videos on the subject. What I mean those Decks are berely accountable to a specific player or playstyle cause you will eventually run on another one (probably the same recipe) and you'll say "Ah so Tribrigate and Tearlment so your next move will be..."
I'd like to see more Decks based around a very specific strategy or the use of a mix of cards not belonging to an Archetype even if made as an anti-archetype. Dunno if I express myself clearly.

I mean, yeah, you will eventually learn how decks work. That's kind of intended. You can't for example turn monarchs into a synchro summoning deck, they have support cards that clearly push it in a certain direction and they are restricted by the forms of (or lack of) support that they have. Once you see a few cards played, and you know the deck well enough, you will already know what they can and can't do given what the opponent showed you so far. And some decks are a lot more linear than others, where mathmech's lines basically always include the same combo with circular after doing everything in their power to reach it while a deck like tearlaments or ogdoadic will play differently based on what they drew.

As for the others...I don't really know what to tell you. You say you're not hating on a meta but that looks exactly like what you're doing. I've played a few hundred hours and seen hundreds of different decks, but people will obviously steer towards what is better when there is something to win. You will never have as many people playing flower cardians or meklords as you will a deck like branded or tearlaments, and you'll never be able to force people to play bargain bin decks in a competitive setting. What that current meta is ends up being completely irrelevant, because if that was gone or banned or in any way removed a new meta would take its place. And again, even within that meta, even at the highest levels of play, you will see clear differences between different builds of the same deck. Even the current tournament champions don't fully agree on ratios or tech cards between their decks, and since this game is a best of 1 format, many people try more out-of-the-box techs to catch people off guard

[ikegami178]

Tv tropes call the phenomenon "complacent gaming syndrome"

Basically, people nowadays care more about winning than having fun, that gets double on enviroments that introduce the illusion(yeah, that rank in the game is just to fool people, what, you think grinding to plat means anything? Or that someone even cares?) of a possible reward(theres more than one post here that says you have something to win by winning... well, unless you talk about the daily that asks to win or the miserable gems rewards you get as you scale the ladder... you dont... the upper portions of the ladder is hardly different than silver, except for maybe even more uniformization of decks)

Its not just here btw... you mentioned EVO, well, you are prob aware that it was a joke that SF4 was ken fighter since ken players were more than half of the ladder. And ofc, theres dragon ball fighter... first it was cell, then kid buu, then bardock, just last week lab coat... lets give some days to see who will be now on last fresh patch

Most people are meta slaves, even pot monsters in a tournament they know they have no realistic shot at making to money prizes you will still see more meta characters than low tiers

Personally, what i hate currently is not the meta itself, but the design philosophy behind the latest card sets. Power creep is one thing, but it reached a point where the concept of card advantage and board setup are non-existent, yugi used to be a game about making a deck with a plan and each player racing and disrupting each other to complete the victory condition. Current philosophy is to make plans be complete with starting hand in no more than 2 turns, that means no time to interact and the predictable result is the sollitarie meta we currently have. Yeah, they are nerfing the more obvious archetypes, but tears and sprite are just end results of this philosophy of extremely fast pace that has been going for a while

Not that i have anything against fast paced games, but turn-based games NEED to have limits to how fast one can make a big play, or theres no interaction to be had because the oponent just have a single window of "have the exact card on hand or die", one dimensional as fu. Its a common problem in mobile games: They are designed for fast games that can be completed in a few minutes to allow "casual pick cell phone on the train and play full match before your stop" and to not tax bateries. Side effect is they also inevitably end extremely non-interactive and formulaic

Modern yugioh is basically a non-digital version of a phone game

[dabestgamer]

Originally posted by Neo Black:

Disagree on point 1
Probably right point 2 but I have my doubt
(Partially)Disagree on point 3: Had totally garbage cards, old, obsolete, mostly made of normal magics and normal monsters still managed to defeat a deck containing the newly released Dark Monarch alongside with other decks.

What's to disagree with on the first point? They have very much been printing progressively stronger cards as the years passed, and when existing stuff doesn't get support (and/or they get hit by the F&L list), they just fall behind. They're not all always magically able to keep up and perform as well as whatever the newest top Decks are, and being able to use newer cards doesn't mean they'll be on equal footing either. "There has to be something" just doesn't work as well in practice as something like the anime and/or even just the notion of a massive cardpool would have you believe.

Plus, if someone does make some successful grand discovery that beats the top Deck(s) with the current cardpool, all it'll do is shift where most players focus in terms of what Deck(s) they'll play--either that very same successful Deck build, or the same Deck changes as everyone else does to combat it (if those changes are able to help deal with it).

On the second, how would you actually know? Neither of us would. A great many players, perhaps, but I doubt it's applicable to all.

On the third, I'd have to question a lot of things if the Deck in question consistently beats whatever the optimized Decks of the time were (and the question is whether they were "optimized", because that's what I meant by top Decks--and I suppose I should point out that said top Decks were being properly piloted as well).