Dispelling the myth - Tearlament is NOT a complex deck...IN MASTER DUEL. CMV

[Papa Smurf]

As much as I'd like to believe that figuring out the deck in less than a day makes me some kind of galaxy brain IQ...It just isn;t true.

Mill, make Kit. Mill 8 feel great. Make Rulkallos, now you're Nibiru-proof! If you can, make Dweller before using Ishizu cards. Make Kaleidoheart. If you're an A-Hole make Winda. Opponents turn make Dragostapelia after using up your interactions. That's it. That's the deck. it's flowchart af. The only slightly complex part of the deck is knowing the best search/foolish from Kit based on what you have.

But what about the galaxy brain mirror match?

Uhh...Hope you mill your shufflers and they don't. That's it.

In the TCG it was a complex deck because of its Tier 0 status and side-decking, which meant the match-up was constantly evolving. Master Duel is a fairly casual game, so that isn;t really a thing here since people will always be playing their pet decks, even in a 'Tier 0' format. Controversial opinion time - Tier 0 doesn;t exist in Master Duel because it isn;t competitive. No point building around just the mirror match when people will always be playing jank.

In both formats the deck was considered complex because it was difficult to keep track of all the mills and activations. In Master Duel, the game does that for you. EZ PZ.

In both formats the archetype led to cheating because of bad card design (searching then shuffling, even if you didn;t have a target in deck to search, because that's private knowledge). In Master Duel, it's automated so we don;t need to worry about that either.

So remind me again - why is this deck supposed to be complicated when it's about as flowchart as it gets? Decks like Adamancipator and Pendulums are complex because they have multiple non-standard lines of play based on the resources they have available to them - it takes considerable knowledge to maximise the potential of the resources you can use. Tears are pretty much always doing the same thing.

Change my View.

Edit: ngl, proud of this community right now! My post was kind of a hot take, but I've seen nothing but intelligent, respectful discussion in this thread so far. You guys rock.

Edit 2: Can't post any more for now because I haven't spent enough money on this account. Y'all have fun and keep it civil - this has been a great discussion so far!

[Yosogoto]

And the world continues to turn

[Papa Shekels]

It's complicated, but nowhere to the degree people make it out to be. I've spent my past week at work watching some streamers trying out the deck, and have consistently seen people just pressing buttons constantly asking "chat do I do this? what does this card do? is this the good one?" and hard misplaying, even popping/blocking their own cards, can still end on a board of rulkallos + elf + dweller and plenty of grave interaction for next turn.

I'm sure the deck is very complicated to keep track of in paper, but on a simulator it's click yes turbo and outside of the highest skill matchups, mill luck is far more important than player skill even in the mirror. And even at that highest level, there's only so much jesse kotton or some other YCS champion could do if they whiff a 5-mill and their opponent gets 3 names and a mudora out of it. A child mashing buttons still has a good chance of beating any competent rogue deck with it

[Daguza]

Meta deckers would want people to think their deck is complex.

[Papa Smurf]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

It's complicated, but nowhere to the degree people make it out to be. I've spent my past week at work watching some streamers trying out the deck, and have consistently seen people just pressing buttons constantly asking "chat do I do this? what does this card do? is this the good one?" and hard misplaying, even popping/blocking their own cards, can still end on a board of rulkallos + elf + dweller and plenty of grave interaction for next turn.

I'm sure the deck is very complicated to keep track of in paper, but on a simulator it's click yes turbo and outside of the highest skill matchups, mill luck is far more important than player skill even in the mirror. And even at that highest level, there's only so much jesse kotton or some other YCS champion could do if they whiff a 5-mill and their opponent gets 3 names and a mudora out of it. A child mashing buttons still has a good chance of beating any competent rogue deck with it

I would award you but I don't spend money on this account and I'm waiting for some awards to cash in :(

Pretty much this. The hardest part of the deck is the Kit search/foolish and knowing the right time to activate your effects, but once you figure that out it's easy.

[Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!]

Originally posted by gredora:

Originally posted by Daguza:

Meta deckers would want people to think their deck is complex.

Meta haters love to think their rogue decks require gigantic brains.

And then there's Flower Cardian players

[Aldain]

To me personally, I just don't think Tears even looks like the same card game is being played.

Not saying that in a boomer sort of way, just...it looks like checkers vs chess outside of the mirror which then in turn looks like the rules are made up on the fly half the time.

There's probably a good reason why my brain turns into TV static when I try to understand Tears, something just doesn't look right watching it in action.

[Papa Smurf]

Originally posted by Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!:

Originally posted by gredora:

Meta haters love to think their rogue decks require gigantic brains.

And then there's Flower Cardian players :cleanseal:

Only Flower Cardian players know how that deck works tbh. All 3 of them. it's an exclusive club.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

I think the big issue is that there's a misunderstanding between the skill floor and skill ceiling when people refer to the "skill needed to play a deck".

The skill floor of the deck is indeed much lower than people want to make it seem, and sure, while it's not at the same level of Runick, Eldlich or Floo, the skill floor of the deck isn't close to something like D/D/D or pendulum piles either.

The skill ceiling however, I believe it's pretty high, as there's a lot of minute interactions and things you can do that can allow you to play through stuff like Dark Ruler No More, Forbidden Droplet, or even use your Abyss Dweller in the same chain as a Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet, proper chain order to achieve different things, such as ensuring the girls aren't at the bottom of the deck after a fusion, or chain blocking, etc.

If I were to put it on a scale, I'd say:
- Skill Floor: 5/10
- Skill Ceiling: 9/10

[Papa Smurf]

Originally posted by Aldain:

To me personally, I just don't think Tears even looks like the same card game is being played.

Not saying that in a boomer sort of way, just...it looks like checkers vs chess outside of the mirror which then in turn looks like the rules are made up on the fly half the time.

There's probably a good reason why my brain turns into TV static when I try to understand Tears, something just doesn't look right watching it in action.

it's definitely an outlier. Some would argue it's the evolution the game needs and all future decks should play like it - there's a reason many people enjoyed the format after all. I can understand where they're coming from.

[Papa Smurf]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

I think the big issue is that a the misunderstanding between the skill floor and skill ceiling.

The skill floor of the deck is indeed much lower than people want to make it seem, and sure, while it's not at the same level of Runick, Eldlich or Floo, the skill floor of the deck isn't close to something like D/D/D or pendulum piles either.

The skill ceiling however, I believe it's pretty high, as there's a lot of minute interactions and things you can do that can allow you to play through stuff like Dark Ruler No More, Forbidden Droplet, or even use your Abyss Dweller in the same chain as a Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet, proper chain order to achieve different things, such as ensuring the girls aren't at the bottom of the deck after a fusion, or chain blocking, etc.

If I were to put it on a scale, I'd say:
- Skill Floor: 5/10
- Skill Ceiling: 9/10

I think I can agree with that. It's an easy deck to play, tricky deck to master.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Papa Smurf:

it's definitely an outlier. Some would argue it's the evolution the game needs and all future decks should play like it - there's a reason many people enjoyed the format after all. I can understand where they're coming from.

I personally don't agree with that line of thinking, this just kind of feels...wrong somehow.

It feels like one of those sci-fi flicks where somebody tries to push human evolution way too far and creates an eldritch nightmare calling it progress.

[Papa Smurf]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Papa Smurf:

it's definitely an outlier. Some would argue it's the evolution the game needs and all future decks should play like it - there's a reason many people enjoyed the format after all. I can understand where they're coming from.

I personally don't agree with that line of thinking, this just kind of feels...wrong somehow.

It feels like one of those sci-fi flicks where somebody tries to push human evolution way too far and creates an eldritch nightmare calling it progress.

Ok, but imagine this - you can play Elementsabers on your opponents turn. Wouldn't that be cool?

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Papa Smurf:

Originally posted by Aldain:

I personally don't agree with that line of thinking, this just kind of feels...wrong somehow.

It feels like one of those sci-fi flicks where somebody tries to push human evolution way too far and creates an eldritch nightmare calling it progress.

Ok, but imagine this - you can play Elementsabers on your opponents turn. Wouldn't that be cool?

No, because that defeats the purpose of turns altogether imo.

If anyone can do anything at any time, what is the point of turns in the first place?

What's the point of a deck and a draw phase when you're just milling everything and doing 12 chains off of that?

When you have everything available at almost all times and only the worst of the worst mills can screw you...what's even left? What's the point?

I know I may not be right and I'm not trying to say it can't or shouldn't be fun for people, but all I see is something so apathetic to any form of game structure that it might as well just be some homebrew rules thrown together without a care in the world.

[ComatosePhoenix]

Originally posted by Papa Smurf:

Originally posted by Tunnel Sharks Rule!!!:

And then there's Flower Cardian players :cleanseal:

Only Flower Cardian players know how that deck works tbh. All 3 of them. it's an exclusive club.

its pretty easy to get into, you start just by clicking buttons. don't worry about winning loosing or making a good board. just spam until you get the feel for when your going to whiff a draw, and when your rolling the dice.

then start thinking about pure routes. End goal going first is to get light flare and lightshower out. while resolving boardfly's graveyard effect.

once you figure out that. its time to take off the training wheels, and branching into other extra deck plays. start with obvious lines like arc light, or link plays then you can think of the strange ones like trishula.

before you know it, you will have a mediocre pet deck that can do some really weird stuff!

[Papa Smurf]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Papa Smurf:

Ok, but imagine this - you can play Elementsabers on your opponents turn. Wouldn't that be cool?

No, because that defeats the purpose of turns altogether imo.

If anyone can do anything at any time, what is the point of turns in the first place?

What's the point of a deck and a draw phase when you're just milling everything and doing 12 chains off of that?

When you have everything available at almost all times and only the worst of the worst mills can screw you...what's even left? What's the point?

I know I may not be right and I'm not trying to say it can't or shouldn't be fun for people, but all I see is something so apathetic to any form of game structure that it might as well just be some homebrew rules thrown together without a care in the world.

It makes the game more of a battle. Every turn you're fighting to outwit and outplay your opponents. That's what made Tear 0 so fun for the people who enjoyed it.

You're not right or wrong - every opinion is valid! Personally I'm undecided on the issue. I see its merits but understand its flaws.