We had enough Maxx ''C''. Now it has to go.

[Mask]

You have to play like over 12 cards as staple to counter it and have to play it also. 15/40 of the deck is just MAXX C and its counters. It is so ridicilous. It is also absurt to watch someone full combo, create a board and after 15 minutes. When they let you play... they drop that bug. Like... What are you going to do if you are a deck that is also needs to special summon.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

because the game is biased towards the ocg playerbase the bug will never get banned

[Mask]

Originally posted by Barbatos:

because the game is biased towards the ocg playerbase the bug will never get banned

We do have things dif. with ocg in md.

[Yerc2]

Maxx "C" is a symptom of the current meta that revolves around powerful, consistent, and low/no cost special summoning allowing the turn 1 player to consistently set up boards that prevent the other player from being able to play.

Fix that issue, and then Maxx "C" and the other 12 cards needed to fight back against turn 1 lockout won't be a staple in every deck.
Getting rid of a bandaid while the wound is still open will only make things worse. Even if the bandaids aren't great.

Originally posted by Mask:

Like... What are you going to do if you are a deck that is also needs to special summon.

The same thing that you do when someone plays Anti-Spell Fragrance when you need to use spell cards, or when you're player 2 and player 1 starts setting up a meta deck.
Hope you drew the out, try to play through it, or lose.

Another huge issue is that current meta decks are so strong that even though Maxx "C" is complained about as some kind of big boogieman(that really isn't that effective in practice), meta decks are quite often still capable of playing through or around it.
And that's why people are so unwilling to change their deck around to one that isn't as heavily hit by the 12 cards to play against turn 1 lockout, they'll complain about the counters to the current meta instead.
Because your chance of winning using a meta deck is still higher even when everyone else is taking 12 cards to try to counter your playstyle.

If Konami isn't gonna take out years of spaghetti powercreep, there needs to be real counters to the coinflip-decides-the-winner-meta, counters that aren't able to be used as effectively by player 1 on turn 2. It sucks that Maxx "C" doesn't do this, but it's our best attempted solution ATM.

Right now, even with the existence of handtraps, meta decks are too capable of setting up boards on turn 1 that prevent their opponent from being able to play, and that is the crux of the issue.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Yerc2:

Maxx "C" is a symptom of the current meta that revolves around powerful, consistent, and low/no cost special summoning allowing the turn 1 player to consistently set up boards that prevent the other player from being able to play.

Fix that issue, and then Maxx "C" and the other 12 cards needed to fight back against turn 1 lockout won't be a staple in every deck.
Getting rid of a bandaid while the wound is still open will only make things worse. Even if the bandaids aren't great.

Originally posted by Mask:

Like... What are you going to do if you are a deck that is also needs to special summon.

The same thing that you do when someone plays Anti-Spell Fragrance when you need to use spell cards, or when you're player 2 and player 1 starts setting up a meta deck.
Hope you drew the out, try to play through it, or lose.

Another huge issue is that current meta decks are so strong that even though Maxx "C" is complained about as some kind of big boogieman(that really isn't that effective in practice), meta decks are quite often still capable of playing through or around it.
And that's why people are so unwilling to change their deck around to one that isn't as heavily hit by the 12 cards to play against turn 1 lockout, they'll complain about the counters to the current meta instead.
Because your chance of winning using a meta deck is still higher even when everyone else is taking 12 cards to try to counter your playstyle.

If Konami isn't gonna take out years of spaghetti powercreep, there needs to be real counters to the coinflip-decides-the-winner-meta, counters that aren't able to be used as effectively by player 1 on turn 2. It sucks that Maxx "C" doesn't do this, but it's our best attempted solution ATM.

Right now, even with the existence of handtraps, meta decks are too capable of setting up boards on turn 1 that prevent their opponent from being able to play, and that is the crux of the issue.

And let me guess, I'll do wrong answers only BTW. You're gonna tell us what those meta combo decks that lock you put of playing if they go first are, right?

[Astrallight]

MD should move away from OCG banlist and use TCG banlist. Then all those threads would no longer be something you had to read every week.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

MD should move away from OCG banlist and use TCG banlist. Then all those threads would no longer be something you had to read every week.

Honestly it should just use the World Championship approach, everything at its lowest from each format.

[Yerc2]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

MD should move away from OCG banlist and use TCG banlist. Then all those threads would no longer be something you had to read every week.

Those threads would just be replaced by threads complaining about a card(s) attempting to counter that meta then.
It's vocal minority that's happy with the turn 1 lockout meta and like how you have to take 12 or so cards to try to counter it, and want the attempted counters banned.

Like if the meta involved ludicrous spell card usage, cards like Anti-Spell Fragrance would be received even worse than Maxx "C". Funnily enough, ASF still wouldn't be a fix to the coinflip meta in that scenario either.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Yerc2:

Originally posted by Astrallight:

MD should move away from OCG banlist and use TCG banlist. Then all those threads would no longer be something you had to read every week.

Those threads would just be replaced by threads complaining about a card(s) attempting to counter that meta then.
It's vocal minority that's happy with the turn 1 lockout meta and like how you have to take 12 or so cards to try to counter it, and want the attempted counters banned.

Like if the meta involved ludicrous spell card usage, cards like Anti-Spell Fragrance would be received even worse than Maxx "C".

I'm still waiting to hear what those meta decks that lock you out are.

Also still waiting for your explanation on that video gameplay I asked you to talk about.

[Rekt]

sick of taking the Maxx C Challenge XD

[Astrallight]

Originally posted by Yerc2:

Originally posted by Astrallight:

MD should move away from OCG banlist and use TCG banlist. Then all those threads would no longer be something you had to read every week.

Those threads would just be replaced by threads complaining about a card(s) attempting to counter that meta then.
It's vocal minority that's happy with the turn 1 lockout meta and like how you have to take 12 or so cards to try to counter it, and want the attempted counters banned.

Like if the meta involved ludicrous spell card usage, cards like Anti-Spell Fragrance would be received even worse than Maxx "C". Funnily enough, ASF still wouldn't be a fix to the coinflip meta in that scenario either.

Then what would you rather have then ? Playing Max C mini game all day or play againts floodgates. In the end its just pick your poison cause both are hated. I stand with my opinion about if a card has to resolve 100% of the time and need 3 different cards to stop it from being played then its not a healthy card.

[Yerc2]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

Then what would you rather have then ? Playing Max C mini game all day or play againts floodgates. In the end its just pick your poison cause both are hated. I stand with my opinion about if a card has to resolve 100% of the time and need 3 different cards to stop it from being played then its not a healthy card.

Short answer: Yes. Getting locked out from being able to play is horrible design, and the stem of the issue, IMO. And even though Maxx "C" doesn't fix that issue, getting rid of it would only make it worse.

Losing against meta decks because you didn't draw multiple specific outs in your opening hand is just an unhealthy state of the game. At least if player 2 pops Maxx "C", player 1 still has the option to play through or around it, they are still able to play and don't automatically lose.

Long answer:
Ideally, I'd prefer it if there were more cards that could give players a chance to fight back when going second, without being able to be used to shut down player 2 even further. The same 12 mandatory handtraps we have now just don't cut it.

This would also hopefully shift the meta away from the coinflip deciding the winner, which would increase the variety of decks in high ranked play, which would make those handtraps less mandatory. Part of the issue now is that meta decks can usually just play through the current handtraps anyways, so there is no need to alter their strategy or use different decks.
But I can't image that Konami could make/balance a card like that without it invalidating non-meta decks even more. So this doesn't sound feasible to me.

I'd also prefer if the banlist hit strong cards that enabled consistent turn-1 lockout decks.
But once again, that doesn't sound feasible to me because Konami is in the business of selling new and powerful cards, and with the gradual powercreep over the years, they'd need to swing the banhammer wide to fix the issue.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Yerc2:

At least if player 2 pops Maxx "C", player 1 still has the option to play through or around it, they are still able to play and don't automatically lose.

How do you do that?

"Just don't summon" doesn't count because you'll get OTK'd by anything remotely decent.

[BAN RUNICK]

Originally posted by Barbatos:

because the game is biased towards the ocg playerbase the bug will never get banned

Why dont you stfu? with your OCG comments? master duel has nothing to do with OCG they have their own banlist, Go stfu and stop listening to Dkayed you little kid. Ban maxx c and stfu.

[Ehgk-Zakhari]

I like Maxx c. As someone else mentioned before, Japan makes up 77% of all spending on Master Duel. Maxx c will never get banned for that reason

[Merilirem]

Originally posted by Ehgk-Zakhari:

I like Maxx c. As someone else mentioned before, Japan makes up 77% of all spending on Master Duel. Maxx c will never get banned for that reason

I think you mean it will follow what the Japanese want. Saying it will NEVER get banned is like saying the Japanese side will never change their stance on it.