why has max c or ash blossom ben banned or at lest limitd yet

[omega leo eevee]

every game on this game alway come down to if you have max or ash blossom and you aponet doesnt

[Aldain]

Because the OCG has a fetish for that damn roach and doesn't want to admit it creates more problems than it solves.

[Cinnamoon_dragon]

For a more balanced game, every time you choose to go first and draw 2 Maxx C and 2 Ash blossoms into your starting hand (or any other brick), you slightly improve 2nd turn player win stats

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2925576574

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Frankly, OCG bias for Maxx "C" and Ash doesn't need a hit because it's balanced, I mean it probably does too much which is why loads of people run it but everything it does is a 1-4-1 trade.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Bad Distraction Carnifex:

Frankly, OCG bias for Maxx "C" and Ash doesn't need a hit because it's balanced, I mean it probably does too much which is why loads of people run it but everything it does is a 1-4-1 trade.

Fun fact, accordion to TCG tournament 1st and 2nd place decks (that I copy pasted links to multiple times on the forum), Ash wasn't a mandatory card since early 2021.

I can't say for previous to that, as that's kinda as far as TCGPlayer goes, but wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't mandatory even prior to that.

OCG however, and by extension MD, have her as near mandatory status because Maxx "C" is legal, and if you plan anything that special summons, Maxx "C" becomes at bare minimum an Upstart Goblin, up to "you win" if it resolves.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Maxx "C" becomes at bare minimum an Upstart Goblin, up to "you win" if it resolves.

Also even if you do counter it at best you still spent a resource to have the right to even remotely have a turn without giving your opponent cards for even some of the most basic moves.

And of course, you can wind up flipping the board your opponent set up from going first, and only get Maxx C'd anyway.

I seriously don't get what the OCG sees in the the thing.

[Blank]

Ash Blossom can stay, Maxx "C" I'd love to see get the axe but probably won't. If your opponent activates it and you have no way to negate it (or if they can negate your negate), you're just a sitting duck.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Originally posted by Bad Distraction Carnifex:

Frankly, OCG bias for Maxx "C" and Ash doesn't need a hit because it's balanced, I mean it probably does too much which is why loads of people run it but everything it does is a 1-4-1 trade.

Fun fact, accordion to TCG tournament 1st and 2nd place decks (that I copy pasted links to multiple times on the forum), Ash wasn't a mandatory card since early 2021.

I can't say for previous to that, as that's kinda as far as TCGPlayer goes, but wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't mandatory even prior to that.

OCG however, and by extension MD, have her as near mandatory status because Maxx "C" is legal, and if you plan anything that special summons, Maxx "C" becomes at bare minimum an Upstart Goblin, up to "you win" if it resolves.

*laughs in Trickstars, or anything that can win the Maxx "C" challenge the normal way*
Seriously, if the opponent plays a one-card Isolde, hold the roach until you're sure they aren't on Six Samurai. Especially if you don't have an Ash or Imperm ready for the Battle Shogun.

[Yerc2]

The current meta revolves around the player going first summoning a bunch of monsters with control effects to prevent your opponent from playing, essentially making it so the winner of games are decided at the coinflip when both players are using meta decks.
This is the root cause of the issue that the excessive powercreep has lead to.

Hand traps in general are a bit of a bandaid to help counteract the monumental advantage that the player going first has.
They just have a pretty terrible side effect also possibly acting as a win-more cards, and also hitting weaker non-meta decks noticeably harder.

Granted, with the amount of power creep and consistency going on, a meta deck going first could realistically play through or around Maxx "C" without much issue.

There are of course outlier cases where player 2 might have all the perfect cards/handtraps to hinder their opponent, occurring at the same time where player 1 might not have any cards to get around/through player 2's cards. But that's like someone getting Exodia in their opening hand.

Pardon my analogy-
But if the game's current meta was a cancer, Ash and Maxx "C" would be like chemotherapy, albeit a lot less effective/consistent.
They in theory, have a chance to help against the big bad problem in general, but they also kill a lot of other things that aren't as problematic.
(although a single handtrap realistically wouldn't be a game changer if both players are using meta decks and know how to play)

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Yerc2:

The current meta revolves around the player going first summoning a bunch of monsters with control effects to prevent your opponent from playing, essentially making it so the winner of games are decided at the coinflip when both players are using meta decks.

Name those decks please.

[Papa Shekels]

Maxx "C" should have been banned on launch but probably never will be because their OCG-leaning banlist feels like it can keep absolutely broken cards like protos or block dragon and just balance it out with another broken card you sometimes open with that can theoretically be used to counter it. Or just used against you after they already built a board and just baronne negate anything you use to try and stop their maxx "C". Ash blossom isn't a problem and wouldn't even be a mandatory auto-include in decks if the roach was banned

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by Yerc2:

The current meta revolves around the player going first summoning a bunch of monsters with control effects to prevent your opponent from playing, essentially making it so the winner of games are decided at the coinflip when both players are using meta decks.
This is the root cause of the issue that the excessive powercreep has lead to.

Hand traps in general are a bit of a bandaid to help counteract the monumental advantage that the player going first has.
They just have a pretty terrible side effect also possibly acting as a win-more cards, and also hitting weaker non-meta decks noticeably harder.

Granted, with the amount of power creep and consistency going on, a meta deck going first could realistically play through or around Maxx "C" without much issue.

There are of course outlier cases where player 2 might have all the perfect cards/handtraps to hinder their opponent, occurring at the same time where player 1 might not have any cards to get around/through player 2's cards. But that's like someone getting Exodia in their opening hand.

Pardon my analogy-
But if the game's current meta was a cancer, Ash and Maxx "C" would be like chemotherapy, albeit a lot less effective/consistent.
They in theory, have a chance to help against the big bad problem in general, but they also kill a lot of other things that aren't as problematic.
(although a single handtrap realistically wouldn't be a game changer if both players are using meta decks and know how to play)

Actually, no, meta decks can't actually play through Maxx "C", they can only Ash, Called By or Crossout Designator it. Meta decks summon too many times, give the roach-using opponent too much advantage, for the mostly once-per-turn negates to actually be enough against their fellow meta decks.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

Originally posted by Yerc2:

The current meta revolves around the player going first summoning a bunch of monsters with control effects to prevent your opponent from playing, essentially making it so the winner of games are decided at the coinflip when both players are using meta decks.
This is the root cause of the issue that the excessive powercreep has lead to.

Hand traps in general are a bit of a bandaid to help counteract the monumental advantage that the player going first has.
They just have a pretty terrible side effect also possibly acting as a win-more cards, and also hitting weaker non-meta decks noticeably harder.

Granted, with the amount of power creep and consistency going on, a meta deck going first could realistically play through or around Maxx "C" without much issue.

There are of course outlier cases where player 2 might have all the perfect cards/handtraps to hinder their opponent, occurring at the same time where player 1 might not have any cards to get around/through player 2's cards. But that's like someone getting Exodia in their opening hand.

Pardon my analogy-
But if the game's current meta was a cancer, Ash and Maxx "C" would be like chemotherapy, albeit a lot less effective/consistent.
They in theory, have a chance to help against the big bad problem in general, but they also kill a lot of other things that aren't as problematic.
(although a single handtrap realistically wouldn't be a game changer if both players are using meta decks and know how to play)

Actually, no, meta decks can't actually play through Maxx "C", they can only Ash, Called By or Crossout Designator it. Meta decks summon too many times, give the roach-using opponent too much advantage, for the mostly once-per-turn negates to actually be enough against their fellow meta decks.

Of course they can play under it, and it looks like this:

P1: "I activate card that special summons"
P2: "Maxx "C" yo ass"
P1: "Pass"
P2: "I activate card that special summons"
P1: "Maxx "C" yo ass too"
P2: "OTK yo ass"

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Originally posted by Bad Distraction Carnifex:

Frankly, OCG bias for Maxx "C" and Ash doesn't need a hit because it's balanced, I mean it probably does too much which is why loads of people run it but everything it does is a 1-4-1 trade.

Fun fact, accordion to TCG tournament 1st and 2nd place decks (that I copy pasted links to multiple times on the forum), Ash wasn't a mandatory card since early 2021.

I can't say for previous to that, as that's kinda as far as TCGPlayer goes, but wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't mandatory even prior to that.

OCG however, and by extension MD, have her as near mandatory status because Maxx "C" is legal, and if you plan anything that special summons, Maxx "C" becomes at bare minimum an Upstart Goblin, up to "you win" if it resolves.

Yep Maxx "C" is frankly one of the most unfair, overpowered cards ever. It's why the moment I see someone defend the OCG I roll my eyes. Like yeah OKAY bud, enjoy your tier 0 formats and homogenized deck building.

[Astrallight]

Max C is here to stay no matter what in this format. Without Max C combo deck can just keep combo into a wall of negates but if you have it you can atleast hope he will stop before you get too high card advantage.

Too bad it hurt rogue decks too hard.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

Max C is here to stay no matter what in this format. Without Max C combo deck can just keep combo into a wall of negates but if you have it you can atleast hope he will stop before you get too high card advantage.

Too bad it hurt rogue decks too hard.

Name the decks that build that wall of negates please, especially the ones that are meta.