Irrational Hate Towards Combo Decks

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

So, while reading comments and watching some vids for the fun of it, it got me thinking, why do so many people hate anything that does more than summon 1-2 monsters and pass? I'm not talking about hate towards stuff like Endymion's complete and utter lack of any form of hard once per turn on the negations, Drytron Herald who doesn't seem to even know what once per chain is, PK Rhongo, Adamancipator or Adventure Tenyi/Combo and the likes of those that really need hits and such, sure, those deserve hits, but what I'm talking about is that irrational hate to the point where they want built in summon limits, and we get those types of threads on a very regular basis, especially when it comes from people who think Maxx "C" is fine.

Well, I came to some theories, they most likely won't be 100% true for everyone, obviously, but I think these do play a solid part of the reason. Those theories can be summed up in 3 main arguments:
- lack of competitive play (locals don't count)
- only watched the OG anime, maybe GX
- improper playing with friends

Let's go over them, shall we?

- Lack of competitive play

We know that a lot of people who complain didn't play at any big events, and there's also locals where people actively didn't play meta, that's stuff people on the forum admitted, that when going to locals, they wouldn't play meta decks to ensure "everyone has fun", and all that does play a role into the hate towards combo decks. Combo decks were in the game for forever, but mostly in the competitive scene, from stuff like Magical Scientist FTK, Empty Jar, Plant Synchro, Gishki hand loop, Wind-Up hand loops, the Hand loop via Ice Hand and Fire Hand, Frog FTK that even won worlds, and those are the ones that come off of the top of my head, there's many more, so people playing at competitive events saw them being in the game for forever, people know they existed and they don't mind them, because they were always in the game, but what about the people that didn't play at such events, and perhaps only ever heard of those things, and only saw them in YouTube videos? Well, then obviously they aren't used to them, short duels with long combos never existed for these people in the IRL game, so it's something they don't like, because it's not how they remember the game.

We already know that a lot of people think there was no "meta copy pasta decks back in the day", because they don't know stuff like certain forums or magazines were talking about what's happening in the competitive scene and showing decklists, so them not knowing about combo decks, well, that's not even plausible, it's pretty much confirmed.

- Only watched the DM anime

Well, let's crack this one, what's up with this point? Well, when it comes to hating combo decks, what are some of the reasons? "Duels end in 2-3 turns and turns take too long". Many of them want short turns with high turn counts, and when it comes to the anime, that type of thing only happens in a single show, which is...*drumrolls*...the DM serie.

Check this video from Yugioh Everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Xuy9JGGI0

That's the longest duels in terms of turn count in all of Yu-Gi-Oh, and there's only 2 non DM duels on it, both from 5D's, duels that took place in the World Racing Grand Prix arc, basically, 3v3 duels, all others are DM duels. There's a special mention, and I'll spoil it, as it's not very important, in Zexal and Vrains, no duel took longer than 12 turns, while in GX, there was only 1 duel that was 20 turns, everything else was shorter. Yugi v Kaiba in the Duel City Tournament took 25 turns, and it didn't qualify for that top, as the turn count to qualify for that video is 26 turns. Many people said they only watched the DM show, so for them, long turn counts are something they grew up with.

People playing mainly with their friends and watching the anime, high turn counts becomes the norm for them, and then seeing the game with short turn counts now is completely off, it's not what they remember, and as previously, they don't like it.

- Improper playing with friends

Last one comes from watching a video from Dzeeff, where he mentions that a lot of people in his comments have certain beliefs about the "old school" game, that simply aren't true, that seem to be made-up rules, and he even admits that he himself did such things, playing with different rules, in his case, lower LP so they can get more duels in during breaks at school.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bft13K0Q610

Well, made-up rules seem to be a thing many of us did, and before someone jumps with "but I didn't do that", I didn't say "everyone", I said "many", I mean, let's remember a thread from a while ago, about the guy asking why we only draw 1 card during draw phase, instead of as many as we need? And there were people in the comments of that thread saying they too drew a lot of cards, I also did that back in the day. Why are people from different parts of the world that clearly didn't meet eachother 20 years ago seem to remember doing similar things, which are not part of the rules of the game?

When we look at everything together, not playing competitively to see combo decks existing in the game since the start, only watching the DM show where long turn counts are the norm, and playing with made-up rules as a child, be it because they followed some anime rules, or to ensure they get more duels in during lunch break, or whatever reason, it gives a reason behind why bunch of people may hate combo decks and how the game is now, because for them, when it never was like this, despite, to an extent, the game was more or less like this.

Don't even get me started with "creativity" or "having to play the exact same staples" and what not.

Anyway, those are just my theories, have fun discussion them if you want to, thanks for reading, have a good one.

[Merilirem]

People just don't like things they don't play themselves. Its all arbitrary ignorance. You see it throughout the world beyond yugioh. People hate combo decks, they hate stall decks, they hate stun decks and FTK deck and OTK deck. They just want a game they understand but they understand very little.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

i was expecting a "Small" write up not an essay kekw

[Takasaur]

i find combos decks to be fun but thats my opinion
Its sastifying ending on a decent board

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Messaggio originale di Merilirem:

People just don't like things they don't play themselves. Its all arbitrary ignorance. You see it throughout the world beyond yugioh. People hate combo decks, they hate stall decks, they hate stun decks and FTK deck and OTK deck. They just want a game they understand but they understand very little.

There was something I read somewhere saying that in competitive games, people tend to hate stuff they can't win consistently against.

Maybe that's something that has to do with it too.

[Takasaur]

Its the game itself evolving to where whoever won the coin flip win the duel (although they tried to interfere by adding more handyraps)
It’s just not fun seeing another person doing the combos and then get all of your plays negated

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Messaggio originale di Taka:

Its the game itself evolving to where whoever won the coin flip win the duel (although they tried to interfere by adding more handyraps)
It’s just not fun seeing another person doing the combos and then get all of your plays negated

that's the nature of bo1, and card games in general, drawing is rng and if you don't draw the out you gg go next, and its not like theres many combo decks that setup a field on negates atm and if ur deck can't play through like 1-2 negates than i dunno what to say.

if you want to have a better chance of wining even if you lose the cf, handtraps, board breakers or as much gas as you can possibly fit in the deck are what you need to add

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Messaggio originale di El Donko (TTV=Cringe):

if you want to have a better chance of wining even if you lose the cf, handtraps, board breakers of as much gas as you can possibly fit in the deck are what you need to add

There's also the option of building a dedicated go 2nd deck, which very few people seem to talk about, yet the only dedicated go 2nd decks they know of are Crusadia, Numeron and Luna Kaiju.

[Takasaur]

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Messaggio originale di El Donko (TTV=Cringe):

if you want to have a better chance of wining even if you lose the cf, handtraps, board breakers of as much gas as you can possibly fit in the deck are what you need to add

There's also the option of building a dedicated go 2nd deck, which very few people seem to talk about, yet the only dedicated go 2nd decks they know of are Crusadia, Numeron and Luna Kaiju.

How disgraceful of you forgetting the best 2nd go deck, Trains

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Messaggio originale di El Donko (TTV=Cringe):

if you want to have a better chance of wining even if you lose the cf, handtraps, board breakers of as much gas as you can possibly fit in the deck are what you need to add

There's also the option of building a dedicated go 2nd deck, which very few people seem to talk about, yet the only dedicated go 2nd decks they know of are Crusadia, Numeron and Luna Kaiju.

There's also trains, unchained blind 2nd, dinos blind 2nd, strikers just to name a few more blind 2nd decks off the top of my head

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Messaggio originale di El Donko (TTV=Cringe):

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

There's also the option of building a dedicated go 2nd deck, which very few people seem to talk about, yet the only dedicated go 2nd decks they know of are Crusadia, Numeron and Luna Kaiju.

There's also trains, unchained blind 2nd, dinos blind 2nd, strikers just to name a few more blind 2nd decks off the top of my head

I didn't mention Sky Striker because that one's quite iffy lately.

Builds that run stuff like Dimensional Barrier, the Adventure Engine, or certain floodgates like TCBOO or Kaiser Colloseum want to go first so they can obviously set their cards, make DPE, etc, while a Pure Sky Striker does want to go 2nd.

[DeathDweller]

OR because people want to play the game and not watch, especially in video games.

You got 1-2 hours per day to play some video games, you can play idk, Cs:Go and have 4-8 matches full of playtime or play Master Duel, play for 5 minutes and watch your opponents play for the rest 1 hour and 55 minutes, fun right?
What's the point of duels being less turns nowadays if those turns take more real time than 20 turns of the past? There is absolutely no pace left to brag about in this game. It's as slow and onesided as games can get and this is a joy killer for any game. Even chess, the king of strategy games, that requires more thinking than the average netdecker tryhard claims he needs to play 2 cards, is faster than Yugioh atm. That's the first problem.

The second problem is balance. Combo decks aren't really combo, they have cards that are combos themselves. Combos need at least 2 cards to be considered combos, not a card that adds another card, that can add another card etc, resulting in an extra deck special summon and a full negate board. Now put that up against a deck that indeed needs combos to play it's gimmick and see how unfair it gets, as one just cheats it's way out and the other tries to gather materials.

And that's the third problem, cheating mechanics. Since Synchrons Konami has been releasing new ways to cheat the rules. First they introduce a new mechanic or gimmick, the next thing is to release cards or archtypes that ignore said gimmicks, resulting in decks that can't be dealt with unless you know what you are up against beforehand, or you get lucky on your first hand. And most combo decks are based around cheating the rules with fake costs. We ban Pot of Greed because there's no drawback but we release a card that can draw 2 or more, but because there's a fake cost written on that card that can be cheated, as the whole deck's gimmick is based around that, then it's ok.

They drive the meta and then balance some things in order NOT to strengthen other decks but keep the already OP meta from being even more strong and they fail at it too.

If you think that watching some anime or playing professionally is required to critic a game then you are just living in a bubble. Wasting your opponent's time in any competitive game, especially strategic games, for your enjoyment/trolling, is considered poor sportsmanship and that's why games have strict (time) rules to prevent that from happening. Yugioh (especially Master Duel) is the only game i've seen that encourages such abuses instead of preventing them.

[Silamon]

I don't like combo decks because I don't want to twiddle my thumbs while my opponent plays solitaire for 10 minutes. It's really that simple.
I don't care about the board they end on, I care about the 10 minutes it took to get there.

If they could end on the same board with 1 spell activation, I would greatly prefer that.

[Madinogi]

For me, im fine with Combos as long as they dont take long and still leave a good amount of room to play, and dont end the game so fast. i even play a few.

what i despise frankly and i will say it.

if youre entire intent with Combos, which 90% of them are nowadays. is to spend 10+ minutes just stacking cards on top of eachother til you either run out of moves or time, Bore youre opponant half to death before they can play, or worse straight up lock them out completely from playing the game. then With all due respect at that point.

Yugioh aint for you!
its a 2 Player game not a single player game, majority of us arent interested in going into a 2 player game and then being forced to sit and watch for 10 minutes as our opponant essentially plays with themselves and only themselves, no one wants to see that bro.

lucky for you tho. Solitaire is more up youre alley and Comes Pre Installed on every PC these Days for free xD

[Helgrind369]

It's not the combo deck itself that most people hate it's the fact they spend 10 minutes playing solitaire then end on so many negates and interruptions you can't play the game at all. So it's basically sitting for their entire combo then oh look you can't play you lost already after turn 1

[BoD[6-4]]

How the "wanting to play the game not just watching most of the time" theory didn't come to your absolutely superior mind is kinda a mistery, isn't it?