When is Maxx"C" going to be banned?

[Everoth]

So this card is clearly banned from many tournaments and normal plays for it being easy to abuse and so easy to put in your deck like pot of greed. Yes I know the counter play for it is just not summon, but it is still such a really strong card to have on every deck against every person. There is no reason to not have it on any of those try hard meta decks. You cant play a game without the enemy instantly using it on the first attempt to summon.

And I have honestly been sick and tiered of seeing this played on every game, and when I talk about it I am just told to "Get over it" or just "Suck it up" if I do not like it. But clearly its banned for a reason. Clearly its so easy to abuse and needs no skill. Clearly there is something wrong if 90% of decks have 3 of these cards that either give you more cards than a pot of greed or make the enemy skip a turn. Its just such a strong win win card. I don't understand how this is not banned and people become so aggressive when you talk against it. What is going on?

[Kissa]

why do people worry about this card so much? the popular decks barely even do special summons so this is a brick card very often. besides its not even the only card that lets you get stuff from the deck so you would just find a new thing to complain about if it was

[✦𝒱𝒶𝓅𝑜𝓇]

Aldain の投稿を引用：

catdog の投稿を引用：

Also thinking that maxx c is the paramount broken op card that shuts down all strategies even though it's pretty situational and lasts 1 turn, k.

How many cards that let you draw last an entire turn?

How many handtraps let you draw more handtraps?

Why did we ban Pot of Greed when Maxx C can do the same thing at a minimum of 2 special summons during your opponent's turn?

1. Aren't there a lot of cards in this game that allow you to draw cards? that last longer than a turn? I think google can help you out.

2. *conditional. remember that word? you choose how many creatures to special summon after maxx c drops meaning you have full control of how many cards your opponent draws

3. Pot of greed is a card without condition. activate, draw 2. Let me refer you to the words conditional and situational. again, not saying we don't ban it, but i'd vote for even a limit 1 before a ban.

This is coming from someone who has never once in their life played maxx c, only had it played against them. I don't own a single copy in a single version of the game

[Kissa]

also its only fair to use this and all the negates i can against control deckers. bet that many who cry about these cards are playing toxic decks like the baronne + dpe + swordsoul/floo/other similar

[Aldain]

catdog の投稿を引用：

2. *conditional. remember that word? you choose how many creatures to special summon after maxx c drops

Conditional in the same way that it's conditional to pay the mafia in exchange for not getting your legs broken.

Also 90% of decks (not even meta decks, DECKS PERIOD) will special summon at least once or twice these days, the only ones that don't, it punishes EVERY form of special summoning, I could be playing freaking Elementsabers and get punished by Maxx C giving my opponents 1 or more cards.

At least Nibiru has a minimum threshold that needs to be cleared, you can chain Maxx C to any special summoning action an opponent does and get replacement value minimum, more unless they stop summoning.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

catdog の投稿を引用：

C.C. アヌビス の投稿を引用：

But then you'd have to swap which decks can run Maxx "C" every week.

The rogue decks will become meta simply due to how unfair Maxx "C" is, and due to the fact that by not allowing the "stronger" decks to run Maxx "C", you also take away some of their ability to counter Maxx "C" via Crossout Designator.

Let's look at Swordsoul, that deck dies to Maxx "C", but now their only counter is Ash and Called By. Now let's look at Dragon Link, that one could run Maxx "C" because it's rogue, so it not only has access to Maxx "C" itself, but also to Crossout to counter an opponent's Maxx "C" more reliably.

Notice a problem with the "only allow certain decks to run broken cards"? The decks that can't run it also lose part of the ability to counter it.

The key is consistency. You didn't read my suggestion that you are critiquing obviously, because it included limiting maxx c for those decks that can use it.

The core issue in all of these balancing arguments is consistency. consistently being able to build an unbreakable board, or consistently having more omni negates than you know what to do with turn 1, or consistency of being able to search a situational card that shuts down a certain strategy.

if every meta deck is too consistent, than the game becomes war of the coin flip.

If you make the meta decks less consistent, while making the less consistent decks more consistent, you may have a better chance of putting more decks at an "even level" or in other words, widening up the pool of playable decks.

Also thinking that maxx c is the paramount broken op card that shuts down all strategies even though it's pretty situational and lasts 1 turn, k. this balancing talk doesn't happen in a vacuum, thank goodness. try to remember this


You also for some reason believe that the meta will shake up every single week to such an extent to warrant a new banlist every single week. When has this ever happened, in any card game, whether the card game uses a standard banlist or a more creative one? did this happen during the initial release of maxx c?

Ok, let's get this straight out.

Too many viable decks is just as bad as having a tier 0, if not worse.

Tier 0 at least is able to showcase everyone's skill and who is indeed better at outsmarting your opponent.

Having too many viable decks makes it a coin flip where not even a side can help, meaning that of you go against something that you're not prepared for and have a bad matchup, you're screwed completely, the whole match, not just a duel, is done.

2nd, you really need to understand why certain decks die to Maxx "C". The thing is, those decks can't set up anything special without going 5+ special summons. Against anything competent, and I'm not even talking meta decks when I say competent, giving your opponent 5+ draws is suicide, but of you don't give them that, you can't set up anything, so if they didn't brick, you lose. A Maxx "C" that resolved against something that dies to it wins you the game, even if it works only 1 turn by putting the opponent so incredibly behind.

[wildnike]

Maxx C is fine in this current environment.

The current meta is a mess of extremes with mass combo negate boards and severe floodgates, designed to make sure no opponent does anything significant. Maxx C is simply another hand trap designed to prevent the former board from popping off, and it has outs. Crossout is at 3 and Called By is at 2. A player is more likely to draw one of the "I out your out" cards if they have an average of four of them in deck. Not to mention Droll, though that is less likely to be run on average.

Is this ridiculous? Sure. But the average player should not have to rely on one card -- be it a handtrap, kaiju, etc -- to stop an unplayable negate board from being spawned either.

So long as this current meta is in a state of such insanity and with a thin margin of error -- where "draw the out" is greater advice than meme to give compared to any other current format -- I'd say it's perfectly acceptable.

We need a banlist, a big banlist. Maxx C should be on it, but not by itself with only a few other trouble makers.

[Aldain]

wildnike の投稿を引用：

We need a banlist, a big banlist. Maxx C should be on it, but not by itself with only a few other trouble makers.

We're kind of past the "a few" point imo, we're reaching the need for a Dragon Ruler era scorched earth F/L list at terminal velocity.

[DeathDweller]

Gefallener von Albaz の投稿を引用：

Nope,

Ash, Imperm, Veiler, Ogre, Baronne etc. are perfectly fine where they're at.

You just want them banned because your casual playground deck can't play through them.

By that logic you don't wanna them banned cause they are easy wins and you can't play otherwise. So don't assume what i can and cannot play around with your biased thoughts.

No, Ash isn't fine. It has 3 triggers that activate even when you activate another effect of a card that happens to have the trigger effect also written, doesn't have an actual cost like Maxx C (which requires it to be in the grave) and the only counters it has, needs to be played either on your turn or set up board for the next turn.

More specifically for Ash the only things you can do are: Call of the Grave which is sitting on 2 (good luck drawing it and start first), Designator (which requires to waste a spot for Ash and good luck starting first again), Prohibition (oh look you need to go first again).
Lastly Millennium Eyes Restrict (if you haven't got Ashed so far).

Now let's see Maxx C: First of all Ash, no need for introductions - no restrictions on turn, Dimension Shifter-no restrictions on turn again, Retaliating C (needs a trigger)-no turn restriction.

Since you will get Maxxed C on your turn most likely, you don't have to worry about going second, so you can use: Masked Hero Dark Law, Dimensional Fissure, Banisher of Light, Banisher of Radiance, Call of the Grave, Designator, Prohibition. There are traps also for those that special summon on opponent's turn or setting up field. Let's not even count FLoowandereeze and True Draco or any deck that bypasses the normal summon rule.

Next: you can just not special summon, special summon enough so you can survive, normal summon and set up field, special summon then get rid of the cards drawn by Maxx C (Multiple Destruction - Card Destruction etc.), special summon and OTK, special summon and run the opponent out of cards, set up special summons for your opponent's turn.

If you ban C without banning Ash 90% of decks will remain with their archtype's draw and when they'll get Ashed on the choke point they lose the duel.

[✦𝒱𝒶𝓅𝑜𝓇]

C.C. アヌビス の投稿を引用：

catdog の投稿を引用：

The key is consistency. You didn't read my suggestion that you are critiquing obviously, because it included limiting maxx c for those decks that can use it.

The core issue in all of these balancing arguments is consistency. consistently being able to build an unbreakable board, or consistently having more omni negates than you know what to do with turn 1, or consistency of being able to search a situational card that shuts down a certain strategy.

if every meta deck is too consistent, than the game becomes war of the coin flip.

If you make the meta decks less consistent, while making the less consistent decks more consistent, you may have a better chance of putting more decks at an "even level" or in other words, widening up the pool of playable decks.

Also thinking that maxx c is the paramount broken op card that shuts down all strategies even though it's pretty situational and lasts 1 turn, k. this balancing talk doesn't happen in a vacuum, thank goodness. try to remember this


You also for some reason believe that the meta will shake up every single week to such an extent to warrant a new banlist every single week. When has this ever happened, in any card game, whether the card game uses a standard banlist or a more creative one? did this happen during the initial release of maxx c?

Ok, let's get this straight out.

Too many viable decks is just as bad as having a tier 0, if not worse.

Tier 0 at least is able to showcase everyone's skill and who is indeed better at outsmarting your opponent.

Having too many viable decks makes it a coin flip where not even a side can help, meaning that of you go against something that you're not prepared for and have a bad matchup, you're screwed completely, the whole match, not just a duel, is done.

2nd, you really need to understand why certain decks die to Maxx "C". The thing is, those decks can't set up anything special without going 5+ special summons. Against anything competent, and I'm not even talking meta decks when I say competent, giving your opponent 5+ draws is suicide, but of you don't give them that, you can't set up anything, so if they didn't brick, you lose. A Maxx "C" that resolved against something that dies to it wins you the game, even if it works only 1 turn by putting the opponent so incredibly behind.

Ok first, you already have that RNG in deck match ups already. it's called playing a card game.

second, you are explaining the weakness of a single strategy deck with absolutely 0 backup, or counter. I fully understand this fact and how maxx c destroys this strategy, I don't think you realize that having a deck with 0 weaknesses is not a healthy meta lmao but a great example of the result of an imbalanced meta, because we see that everywhere. You are relying on the coin flip/match up. You are essentially relying on several special summons in one turn and if they are countered in any way, including maxx c, floodgate, negate, counter, all hope is lost.

Also, what if your opponent draws 5 cards with maxx c and doesn't draw anything useful?? but you still scoop immediately, thinking "oh god, here we go again" lmao this happens so often my friend half assed his way to diamond this way.

Again, let's try to get back to the core issue, consistency. Would your example be an issue if there are turn 1 5+ special summon monster combos that are FTK's? Would your example be an issue if there were little or no turn 1 5+ special monster summon combos that are FTK's?

I'm trying to get back to the point that maxx c doesn't live in a vacuum, balancing requires looking at the big picture, not how badly you want the card that counters the deck you enjoy playing to be banned.

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

I disagree, too many viable decks means that finally we have reached a point of balance where people can play whatever they want and no one deck beats the other so we have this RPS situation where you deck might be better against other decks but cannot cover other decks without sacrifices and that is the best the game has ever been because it also means for RL players they can opt to build whatever and this is when true skill shows up with a dash of RNG and Luck.

Tier 0 has always been unhealthy even for everyone even in EDO and Dueling Book.

Many of the problem cards simply need an errata, if I were to balance Maxx C I would add the clause where it can only be used if you have no other cards on the field during Main Phase 1 or ban it and release a card that works like Summon Limit as a hand trap.

[Zelwy]

Aldain の投稿を引用：

SirCroix の投稿を引用：

I think is unfair to consider bans that are not in the time range of what we have.

Alright, VFD is still running around when it was already dead in both formats when Master Duel launched.

You mean it was dead by the point master duel format was when the game came out? if that is the case is very bad that the ban is still not done.

[✦𝒱𝒶𝓅𝑜𝓇]

wildnike の投稿を引用：

Maxx C is fine in this current environment.

The current meta is a mess of extremes with mass combo negate boards and severe floodgates, designed to make sure no opponent does anything significant. Maxx C is simply another hand trap designed to prevent the former board from popping off, and it has outs. Crossout is at 3 and Called By is at 2. A player is more likely to draw one of the "I out your out" cards if they have an average of four of them in deck. Not to mention Droll, though that is less likely to be run on average.

Is this ridiculous? Sure. But the average player should not have to rely on one card -- be it a handtrap, kaiju, etc -- to stop an unplayable negate board from being spawned either.

So long as this current meta is in a state of such insanity and with a thin margin of error -- where "draw the out" is greater advice than meme to give compared to any other current format -- I'd say it's perfectly acceptable.

We need a banlist, a big banlist. Maxx C should be on it, but not by itself with only a few other trouble makers.

this.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

DeathDweller の投稿を引用：

Gefallener von Albaz の投稿を引用：

Nope,

Ash, Imperm, Veiler, Ogre, Baronne etc. are perfectly fine where they're at.

You just want them banned because your casual playground deck can't play through them.

By that logic you don't wanna them banned cause they are easy wins and you can't play otherwise. So don't assume what i can and cannot play around with your biased thoughts.

No, Ash isn't fine. It has 3 triggers that activate even when you activate another effect of a card that happens to have the trigger effect also written, doesn't have an actual cost like Maxx C (which requires it to be in the grave) and the only counters it has, needs to be played either on your turn or set up board for the next turn.

More specifically for Ash the only things you can do are: Call of the Grave which is sitting on 2 (good luck drawing it and start first), Designator (which requires to waste a spot for Ash and good luck starting first again), Prohibition (oh look you need to go first again).
Lastly Millennium Eyes Restrict (if you haven't got Ashed so far).

Now let's see Maxx C: First of all Ash, no need for introductions - no restrictions on turn, Dimension Shifter-no restrictions on turn again.

Since you will get Maxxed C on your turn most likely, you don't have to worry about going second, so you can use: Dimensional Fissure, Banisher of Light, Banisher of Radiance, Call of the Grave, Designator, Prohibition. There are traps also for those that special summon on opponent's turn or setting up field. Let's not even count FLoowandereeze and True Draco or any deck that bypasses the normal summon rule.

Next: you can just not special summon, special summon enough so you can survive, normal summon and set up field, special summon then get rid of the cards drawn by Maxx C (Multiple Destruction - Card Destruction etc.), special summon and OTK, special summon and run the opponent out of cards, set up special summons for your opponent's turn.

If you ban C without banning Ash 90% of decks will remain with their archtype's draw and when they'll get Ashed on the choke point they lose the duel.

Got proof of those claims?

I brought decklists from decks winning huge tournaments in the TCG that didn't run Ash, or any hand traps for that matter.

We have precedent, we can clearly see from decks in the TCG that Ash and other hand traps aren't mandatory once Maxx "C" is banned.

Yea, there's players that will still run Ash, and there's players that won't, even if both are playing the same deck. She's still a good card, but again, as shown by tournament results, not mandatory without Maxx "C".

[DeathDweller]

Gefallener von Albaz の投稿を引用：

Sheesh, you really don't know what you're talking about, just admit your deck is dogwater. If your deck is unable to play through a single hand trap and you're lacking extenders for your deck, that should be a sign that your deck is awful and should either optimize it or play something else so you don't autolose after one normal summon.

If you seriously think Ash Blossom is a problem, it just goes to show you don't know what you're talking about, you only play casually, your ♥♥♥♥ at deckbuilding, have no experience playing outside your little friend circle.

I'm actually curious what deck you play, probably some Season 1 archetype that'll never see any relevant meta play.

Yeah i don't know what i'm talking about... 4 counters for Ash on your turn vs 10 counters for C a dozen ways to play around and more than 2 decks that bypass it. Your biased assumptions mean nothing to me, you keep thinking that i personally have problem countering Ash while i'm just saying how unbalanced of a card it is. Mr pro player my ass hahaha

[DeathDweller]

C.C. アヌビス の投稿を引用：

Got proof of those claims?

I brought decklists from decks winning huge tournaments in the TCG that didn't run Ash, or any hand traps for that matter.

We have precedent, we can clearly see from decks in the TCG that Ash and other hand traps aren't mandatory once Maxx "C" is banned.

Yea, there's players that will still run Ash, and there's players that won't, even if both are playing the same deck. She's still a good card, but again, as shown by tournament results, not mandatory without Maxx "C".

Need i say that tournaments mean ♥♥♥♥? The top of the top latest meta? I'm talking about older decks, rogue decks and i'm not talking TGC i'm Talking Master Duel, i'm not in a Yugioh TCG forum i'm in a video game forum. I'm not having that conversation with you again, you used to believe that Master duel is gaining players cause you couldn't read a godamn steam chart right.