Mystic Mine vs Maxx C - Which would you rather have legal?

[Papa Smurf]

Just noticed that it probably isn't a coincidence that these cards are both banned and unlimited in each others formats (tcg/ocg) - they both supposedly serve the same purpose of keeping combo decks in check. So which would you rather have banned/legal in Master Duel?

[Silyon]

Mystic Mine Legal. No contest, all it asks is if you're using an MST-type card. If your deck isn't running backrow removal in a format that until recently had Skill Drain at 3, you deserve to be Mystic Mined out of the game.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Maxx "C" banned, Mystic Mine legal.

That's assuming we can't just have both banned.

Maxx "C" is a card that if it resolves, the one resolving it is pretty much guaranteed to auto win the duel. Sure, there's a few "well, he bricked so bad that you just passing didn't fix his hand", and that can be true, but outside those fringe scenarios, I'd say an easy 90% of the times when Maxx "C" resolves, the one using it wins next turn, and once it resolved, there's not way to counter it, as many decks can't use Droll & Lock Bird on their own turn as they themselves need to draw/search.

My way of looking at it is like this:

- Which card is easy to splash? Maxx "C".

Mystic Mine needs a deck built around it, you can't just take it and put in any deck, while Maxx "C" is pretty much plug and play.

- If the card resolves, which can you still deal with? Mystic Mine

Since Mystic Mine is a field spell, and a stall card, you can blow it up even after it resolved. Once Maxx "C" resolves, there's nothing you can do anymore unless you're one of those few decks that don't search/draw so you can use Droll on your own turn. Not to mention, Mystic Mine can blow itself up if both players control the same number of monsters during the end phase, 0 is a valid number.

- If the card resolves, which one kills you faster? Maxx "C"

Mystic Mine is a stall card, you don't play it to win next turn, your opponent will get a few turns after the Mystic Mine resolves, meaning you have one or two more chances to draw/search an out, Maxx "C" however....well....excluding the rare cases where the opponent bricked so badly they can't play, vast majority of competent decks will just OTK you if you don't play anything.

Just had that happen to me a couple days ago, I summoned Kepler, opponent Maxx "C" and Lancea, so it resolved. Kepler searched Dark Contract with the Witch, I set an Imperm, had an Ash in hand, 3 disruptions should do I think to myself, opponent has 3 cards in hand, draws 1 for turn, am safe. I still got OTK'd by Adamancipators.

All in all, due to it being impossible to just splash in vast majority of decks, and being outable even after it resolves, Mystic Mine is more healthy than Maxx "C".

[Papa Smurf]

This is interesting - personally I'd prefer Maxx C to be legal, but then again my favourite deck is Pendulum Magician so I can just Bagooska if they Maxx C. I feel like there's a lot more splashable/staple outs to Maxx C than there is to Mine too. Of course, I'd prefer both to be banned.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Mystic Mine can be outed by most backrow removal, except stuff that's treated as a monster card.

D/D Orthros' pendulum effect can out Mystic Mine for example.

The main difference is, that while Maxx "C" might have more "splashable" (not really) outs, you need them in your hand/field the instant Maxx "C" is activated, if you don't have it, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥. For Mystic Mine however, you have the ability to draw/search into them a turn or two later.

Using D/D/D as an example.

I made my board, awesome, you play Mystic Mine, cool, next turn I can either hard draw into Orthros, have Thomas grab it back from the ED, have Dark Contract with the Gate search it, you get the point. I don't need Orthros that exact moment or I'm screwed.

[Papa Smurf]

Първоначално публикувано от C.C. アヌビス:

Mystic Mine can be outed by most backrow removal, except stuff that's treated as a monster card.

D/D Orthros' pendulum effect can out Mystic Mine for example.

The main difference is, that while Maxx "C" might have more "splashable" (not really) outs, you need them in your hand/field the instant Maxx "C" is activated, if you don't have it, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥. For Mystic Mine however, you have the ability to draw/search into them a turn or two later.

Using D/D/D as an example.

I made my board, awesome, you play Mystic Mine, cool, next turn I can either hard draw into Orthros, have Thomas grab it back from the ED, have Dark Contract with the Gate search it, you get the point. I don't need Orthros that exact moment or I'm screwed.

Mystic Mine is more searchable though - Metaverse, Demise of the Land, Terraforming - heck, even Planet Pathfinder if you're playing a dedicated stall deck. The outs to it are hard to find too, especially if they play stuff like Field Barrier + Solemns; plus think of all the salt Skill Drain is causing already in our meta. Imagine if Skill Drain was tutorable, that;s what Mystic Mine is. I mean yeah they both suck, but Maxx C is easier to deal with. Only deck searching Maxx C is Beetrooper.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

And only deck searching Mystic Mine is dedicated Stall decks, some with, others without a Sky Striker engine.

You won't see Mystic Mine in Prank-Kids, or Virtual World, or anything other than that really. Only a moron would play Mystic Mine outside stall decks, as that field spell doesn't discriminate on players. If you have more monsters, it's gonna ♥♥♥♥ you, if you don't, it's gonna ♥♥♥♥ the opponent, or blow itself up.

[Papa Smurf]

Първоначално публикувано от C.C. アヌビス:

And only deck searching Mystic Mine is dedicated Stall decks, some with, others without a Sky Striker engine.

You won't see Mystic Mine in Prank-Kids, or Virtual World, or anything other than that really. Only a moron would play Mystic Mine outside stall decks, as that field spell doesn't discriminate on players. If you have more monsters, it's gonna ♥♥♥♥ you, if you don't, it's gonna ♥♥♥♥ the opponent, or blow itself up.

Mystic Mine is pretty common in the tcg just because it's such a good floodgate - although I couldn't say how much play it would see in a BO1 format though. It's definitely not just stall decks running it though, as tournament results have shown.

[Angel]

I'd rather have mine than maxx c

[Aldain]

Mystic Mine because it dies to any non-monster effect backrow hate and can't be protected by a board of omni-negates.

I'd rather have to run 3 MST and an HFD than 3 Maxx C and however many Crossout Designators/CBTGs are legal just to make sure that bug doesn't resolve.

[Papa Smurf]

Първоначално публикувано от Aldain:

Mystic Mine because it dies to any non-monster effect backrow hate and can't be protected by a board of omni-negates.

I'd rather have to run 3 MST and an HFD than 3 Maxx C and however many Crossout Designators/CBTGs are legal just to make sure that bug doesn't resolve.

But what do you do when they play field barrier/metaverse? I guess Cosmic cyclone would see more play...Is CC better than Ash/Crossout/Called By though?

[Aldain]

Първоначално публикувано от Papa Smurf:

Първоначално публикувано от Aldain:

Mystic Mine because it dies to any non-monster effect backrow hate and can't be protected by a board of omni-negates.

I'd rather have to run 3 MST and an HFD than 3 Maxx C and however many Crossout Designators/CBTGs are legal just to make sure that bug doesn't resolve.

But what do you do when they play field barrier/metaverse?

Play MST, or in the case of Field Barrier, play an MST and HFD or 2 MST or another backrow killing card.

Or Dark Hole my own field if it comes down to that.

Still better than somebody throwing out Maxx C, at least Mystic Mine can't help combo decks as much as it hurts them half the time.

[Papa Smurf]

Първоначално публикувано от Aldain:

Първоначално публикувано от Papa Smurf:

But what do you do when they play field barrier/metaverse?

Play MST, or in the case of Field Barrier, play an MST and HFD or 2 MST or another backrow killing card.

Or Dark Hole my own field if it comes down to that.

Still better than somebody throwing out Maxx C, at least Mystic Mine can't help combo decks as much as it hurts them half the time.

iirc combo decks play Mystic Mine too, they just get rid of it when they want to push for game. It's basically a searchable Skill Drain.

Edit: Because Steam has decided I'm posting too much:

Първоначално публикувано от C.C. アヌビス:

Първоначално публикувано от Papa Smurf:

iirc combo decks play Mystic Mine too, they just get rid of it when they want to push for game. It's basically a searchable Skill Drain.

Well, show some decklists for that please.

I've went over some decklists just now, some are still being updated, such as from Rio, only decks that ran Mystic Mine were decks dedicated to it. There was something from a couple weeks or so ago posted on Facebook with a Tear deck using it, but for that one, they also ran 3 Designators and 1 MM, so it looked more like a Crossout target than anything else.

The Rikka deck that won EU Championship was the only "combo" deck running it, but that one was heavily invested into Mystic Mine.

Tearlaments don't use it, Spright doesn't use it, Exosisters don't use it, Marincess don't use it, Mathmechs aren't using it.

Also, not to burst your bubble, but your argument show why Maxx "C" is the more toxic card. You keep going with "but what if Mystic Mine is protected by X or Y or Z" and such, going for multiple card combinations, showcasing that Mystic Mine needs other cards to protect it to reach it's full potential, Maxx "C" breaks the game by itself, you either counter it then and there, or you're screwed.

Well yeah, that's kinda my point. Do you want a broken card only some decks can play, or a broken card every deck can play? That's the choice here.

[randomguy01542]

Maxx x, I don't care if people maxx, I don't want to put outs in my deck just for mystic mine. Guy literally just won ycs rio with 3 of them in his deck, no thanks.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Първоначално публикувано от Papa Smurf:

Първоначално публикувано от Aldain:

Play MST, or in the case of Field Barrier, play an MST and HFD or 2 MST or another backrow killing card.

Or Dark Hole my own field if it comes down to that.

Still better than somebody throwing out Maxx C, at least Mystic Mine can't help combo decks as much as it hurts them half the time.

iirc combo decks play Mystic Mine too, they just get rid of it when they want to push for game. It's basically a searchable Skill Drain.

Well, show some decklists for that please.

I've went over some decklists just now, some are still being updated, such as from Rio, only decks that ran Mystic Mine were decks dedicated to it. There was something from a couple weeks or so ago posted on Facebook with a Tear deck using it, but for that one, they also ran 3 Designators and 1 MM, so it looked more like a Crossout target than anything else.

The Rikka deck that won EU Championship was the only "combo" deck running it, but that one was heavily invested into Mystic Mine.

Tearlaments don't use it, Spright doesn't use it, Exosisters don't use it, Marincess don't use it, Mathmechs aren't using it.

Also, not to burst your bubble, but your argument show why Maxx "C" is the more toxic card. You keep going with "but what if Mystic Mine is protected by X or Y or Z" and such, going for multiple card combinations, showcasing that Mystic Mine needs other cards to protect it to reach it's full potential, Maxx "C" breaks the game by itself, you either counter it then and there, or you're screwed.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

maxx c legal any day of the month