Question About Mystic Mine TCG

[Zelwy]

I dont really care much about it existing but it was the card everyone wanted Banned in TCG, you think is fine this card is at 3? would be fine at 2 or 1? you think this kind of card should exist? I have been reading that regardless of how much people wanted it banned, the winrate of the decks using it isnt that high and some people compare it to Maxx C in the OCG, basically a card that exist to somehow balance combo, opinions about it?

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Messaggio originale di Papa Shekels:

Messaggio originale di Silamon:

Then blame Konami for making it that way? It's not our fault that this is how they have been designing the game for years now.

Their refusal to ban mystic mine is literally konami working against that state though. It shows that the combo decks aren't meant to be unstoppable negate trains. Ban halq, ban snow, unlimit various combo pieces for weaker decks, leave floodgates untouched....the writing is on the wall. It's the players who are still clutching onto the same play style. Rogue and anti-meta decks have been a thing for decades, it's good to see them still being kept alive despite the meta players wanting all opposition banned

Hakuna your matatas mate, people aren't against opposition for combo decks.

Look at cards like Nibiru or Kurikara, people are ok with there being active counterplay and back and forth, people just hate when there's specific single cards that if you don't build your deck around specifically, you lose to them.

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru? Or Kurikara? Or Dark Ruler No More? Or Forbidden Droplet?

Because despite those cards being strong, you don't need to build your whole deck around them just so you don't auto lose to them.

I know a lot of people here have a massive hate boner for anything that special summons more than thrice per turn, but cards like Mystic Mine aren't the solution.

[Silamon]

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Messaggio originale di Papa Shekels:

snip

Hakuna your matatas mate, people aren't against opposition for combo decks.

Look at cards like Nibiru or Kurikara, people are ok with there being active counterplay and back and forth, people just hate when there's specific single cards that if you don't build your deck around specifically, you lose to them.

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru? Or Kurikara? Or Dark Ruler No More? Or Forbidden Droplet?

Because despite those cards being strong, you don't need to build your whole deck around them just so you don't auto lose to them.

I know a lot of people here have a massive hate boner for anything that special summons more than thrice per turn, but cards like Mystic Mine aren't the solution.

On that note I would love to see more cards like summon limit and breaker. Things that limit you without just stopping you from playing at all.

If Konami wants to move back to backrow hate being mandatory in every main deck then they will need a massive overhaul of the game, and that's just not happening at this point.

[Aldain]

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru? Or Kurikara? Or Dark Ruler No More? Or Forbidden Droplet?

Probably because those are reactive rather than proactive.

Personally I find both Mine and Maxx bad because they aren't reactive, sure somebody might say Maxx is a response card but outside of a handful of decks that can deck you out with infinite recursion you can technically yeet that bug at any time, just like flipping metaverse into Mine.

What I don't get is why people are fine with "Draw the out to stop the 3-6 omni-negates bro" but seem opposed to "Draw the S/T destruction out bro", seems almost hypocritical to say one isn't just as bad as the other imo.

[Zelwy]

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru?

Small comment here, some people were saying that if nebiru tributed monsters as a cost instead of as an effect then it would actually be a good card to keep combo decks in check, but since some decks can put a negation to beat it it before the 5 summon it doesnt work well enough, just feel like commenting since nebiru was mentioned.

[Silamon]

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru? Or Kurikara? Or Dark Ruler No More? Or Forbidden Droplet?

Probably because those are reactive rather than proactive.

Personally I find both Mine and Maxx bad because they aren't reactive, sure somebody might say Maxx is a response card but outside of a handful of decks that can deck you out with infinite recursion you can technically yeet that bug at any time, just like flipping metaverse into Mine.

What I don't get is why people are fine with "Draw the out to stop the 3-6 omni-negates bro" but seem opposed to "Draw the S/T destruction out bro", seems almost hypocritical to say one isn't just as bad as the other imo.

Because a modern deck can play through 3-6 negates, but mystic mine hitting the field turns the same duel into draw pass until you pull mst or opponent finishes their combo and gets rid of mystic mine themselves.

[Aldain]

Messaggio originale di Silamon:

Because a modern deck can play through 3-6 negates, but mystic mine hitting the field turns the same duel into draw pass until you pull mst or opponent finishes their combo and gets rid of mystic mine themselves.

We never should have gotten to the point where a deck should have to play through 3-6 negates to be considered worthwhile.

[Yerc2]

All cards have their counters or ways to get rid of them. And it seems like Mystic Mine has more of them than other toptier cards that pretty much shut everything down.

Master Duel's current "draw card X or card Y in your opening hand or you lose if you don't go first" meta is terrible. Mystic Mine would just be adding another familiar layer to it.

A card shutting down decks without backrow removal sounds reasonable to me when in this meta half your deck has to be hand traps for similar circumstances with monsters.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Messaggio originale di SirCroix:

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru?

Small comment here, some people were saying that if nebiru tributed monsters as a cost instead of as an effect then it would actually be a good card to keep combo decks in check, but since some decks can put a negation to beat it it before the 5 summon it doesnt work well enough, just feel like commenting since nebiru was mentioned.

That's for balance reasons tho.

If Nibiru tributed as cost, then it would be broken, as it would be pretty much unstoppable, as unless you can prevent your opponent from tributing, you can't prevent a Nibiru from destroying your board.

Now however, even tho yes, a lot of decks can put a negate on board before 5, for very few decks is that even something they can do without altering their combo and giving up resources, or running engines that can potentially be bricks at times.

Unless it would have a massive cost for that effect, it would've needed to be banned a long time ago if it tributed for cost.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

Messaggio originale di C.C. アヌビス:

Why aren't people crying about Nibiru? Or Kurikara? Or Dark Ruler No More? Or Forbidden Droplet?

Probably because those are reactive rather than proactive.

Personally I find both Mine and Maxx bad because they aren't reactive, sure somebody might say Maxx is a response card but outside of a handful of decks that can deck you out with infinite recursion you can technically yeet that bug at any time, just like flipping metaverse into Mine.

What I don't get is why people are fine with "Draw the out to stop the 3-6 omni-negates bro" but seem opposed to "Draw the S/T destruction out bro", seems almost hypocritical to say one isn't just as bad as the other imo.

And I think that's how cards that prevent your opponent from doing stuff should be used.

When you have to respond to your opponent's actions, you can end up making mistakes, getting baited, or simply be unable to respond because of something like Dark Ruler No More or Super Poly, and that's something both players need to consider, and that's something that can't happen when cards like MM are used.

Messaggio originale di Silamon:

On that note I would love to see more cards like summon limit

As long as they aren't like the current Summon Limit, by that I mean that they don't count summons that happen prior to the card being activated. That honestly is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Silamon]

Messaggio originale di Aldain:

Messaggio originale di Silamon:

Because a modern deck can play through 3-6 negates, but mystic mine hitting the field turns the same duel into draw pass until you pull mst or opponent finishes their combo and gets rid of mystic mine themselves.

We never should have gotten to the point where a deck should have to play through 3-6 negates to be considered worthwhile.

I agree with that. But that's just not the world we live in.

[wildnike]

Messaggio originale di Silamon:

If Konami wants to move back to backrow hate being mandatory in every main deck then they will need a massive overhaul of the game, and that's just not happening at this point.

I don't even think you need to go this far.

Konami simply needs to print a new backrow focused archetype or support for backrow-focused decks which is broken to an appropriate level. Then the meta will adjust accordingly.

It's not like we haven't been here before. In 2019 we had Striker and Altergeist. Combo and control heavy metas swing like a pendulum. I wouldn't be surprised if it swings the other way eventually.

[Papa Shekels]

Messaggio originale di wildnike:

Konami simply needs to print a new backrow focused archetype or support for backrow-focused decks which is broken to an appropriate level. Then the meta will adjust accordingly.

It's not like we haven't been here before. In 2019 we had Striker and Altergeist. Combo and control heavy metas swing like a pendulum. I wouldn't be surprised if it swings the other way eventually.

Doesn't runick do this? The guy playing next to me at locals last week just sat there banishing away his opponent's entire deck. I think he even had a copy of mine for the last few turns but just having runick fountain and a bunch of quick-plays he could use from the hand during the opponent's turn seemed to do the job just fine

[wildnike]

Messaggio originale di Papa Shekels:

Messaggio originale di wildnike:

Konami simply needs to print a new backrow focused archetype or support for backrow-focused decks which is broken to an appropriate level. Then the meta will adjust accordingly.

It's not like we haven't been here before. In 2019 we had Striker and Altergeist. Combo and control heavy metas swing like a pendulum. I wouldn't be surprised if it swings the other way eventually.

Doesn't runick do this? The guy playing next to me at locals last week just sat there banishing away his opponent's entire deck. I think he even had a copy of mine for the last few turns but just having runick fountain and a bunch of quick-plays he could use from the hand during the opponent's turn seemed to do the job just fine

From my limited research it doesn't appear Runick has won any notable tourneys, nor does it appear the other new backrow archetype Labrynth has made any major strides either. They appear to be very good, but they aren't exactly the meta shake up I am imagining.

But they are certainly steps in that direction, perhaps even foreshadowing.

[Zelwy]

Messaggio originale di wildnike:

Messaggio originale di Papa Shekels:

Doesn't runick do this? The guy playing next to me at locals last week just sat there banishing away his opponent's entire deck. I think he even had a copy of mine for the last few turns but just having runick fountain and a bunch of quick-plays he could use from the hand during the opponent's turn seemed to do the job just fine

From my limited research it doesn't appear Runick has won any notable tourneys, nor does it appear the other new backrow archetype Labrynth has made any major strides either. They appear to be very good, but they aren't exactly the meta shake up I am imagining.

But they are certainly steps in that direction, perhaps even foreshadowing.

I think Runick was good in the OCG for a short while, but nothing really impresive, but here is doing nothing, although some say mine make it playable, what makes sense considering their strategy.

[Papa Shekels]

Messaggio originale di SirCroix:

I think Runick was good in the OCG for a short while, but nothing really impresive, but here is doing nothing, although some say mine make it playable, what makes sense considering their strategy.

It definitely looks like a good option, but they kind of want to keep fountain up for a while too. Recycling their spells and then drawing 3 for even more disruption during their opponent's turn is just too good to pass up. I think the play is to banish most of your opponent's deck while digging for mine and then set it up in the last few turns when your opponent doesn't have any more gas left and is just stuck with whatever is left on their field. Come to think of it, it almost resembles a very slow yata-lock if you can pull it off without disruption