Question About Mystic Mine TCG

[Zelwy]

I dont really care much about it existing but it was the card everyone wanted Banned in TCG, you think is fine this card is at 3? would be fine at 2 or 1? you think this kind of card should exist? I have been reading that regardless of how much people wanted it banned, the winrate of the decks using it isnt that high and some people compare it to Maxx C in the OCG, basically a card that exist to somehow balance combo, opinions about it?

[Silamon]

I don't ever want to play in a format with Mystic Mine again. I was so glad it is banned on master duel.

Of course I would prefer Maxx C to be hit as well, but at least I can still play after opponent drops it. Vs Mystic Mine it turns into draw pass for 10 turns until either I draw my out or opponent completes his combo. It also makes back row removal spells mandatory in a way that no other card really does.

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

No more mystic mine please

[JKArtorias]

It's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid card that should be banned. Floodgating fun for the sake of "KeEpInG cOmBoS iN cHeCk" shouldn't exist. It's lame and deserves to be banned. Thank god we have Maxx C instead of Mystic Mines.

Obviously i too want Maxx C banned but if i had to choose between Mystic Loser or Maxx Loser i'ma choose Maxx.

[Papa Shekels]

I don't think mystic mine at 2 or 1 would do that much to reduce consistency. It's already mainly brought out with cards like demise of the land, metaverse, or terraforming. The main difference there would be that if you only had it at 1 copy, outing it would be the end of the strat. You would need to specifically play cards to recycle it and have that combo set up if your opponent ever outs it. If they use cosmic cyclone, that's pretty much the game over. So the strat itself would just end up being so fragile it may dissuade people from using it in the first place, or just have it as a side piece in the main control deck strategy.

Either way, I think it's fine existing as is. The card is objectively far less toxic than something like maxx "C", and we see that at 3 here. Biggest balance point is it's a field spell that only works while face up on the field, instead of you needing to have ash/called by the grave/crossout designator already in your hand at the point of activation or gg. It also doesn't just leave your opponent with a +10 for doing your combo, it places the same restrictions for both players and gives each player an opportunity to out it, intentionally or not.

And like you mentioned, the win rate for decks using them is actually quite low compared to the backlash it gets, since it really doesn't do all that much. At worst, it leads to a stalemate state where neither player is doing much. Draw pass takes a few seconds. The card isn't strong, it's just annoying. Unlike a board of borreload + baronne + apollousa, which is both strong and annoying. Obviously mystic mine decks will be built to better work around its restrictions, but that can be said for literally any card in the game. I really feel like the hate for the card is blown out of proportion by the people whose decks it counters. Which has been a thing ever since deck diversity first became a thing, so....idk cry about it, I guess

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

And like you mentioned, the win rate for decks using them is actually quite low compared to the backlash it gets, since it really doesn't do all that much.

It also completely crumples to any form of Backrow removal that isn't taped onto a monster and can be reversed onto your opponent if you can remove your own monsters through some method.

Does it still suck to play against? Yeah, I'd say it is second to only Maxx C in "sucks to deal with" territory, but realistically speaking the prime reason why people hate it more than the roach is because the current state of the meta is an absolute refusal to play backrow hate that isn't in the form of demanding backrow cards be banned.

People hate Skill Drain for similar reasons as Mine, the only difference is that Mine can be searched for and doesn't disable the effects player with less monster cards on the field, which is where most of the rub comes in.

But seriously if the meta somehow went back in time where trap cards that weren't playable from the hand actually mattered or complete floodgates nobody would complain about Mine because every deck would be running 3 copies of whatever the best backrow killer is instead.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

And like you mentioned, the win rate for decks using them is actually quite low compared to the backlash it gets, since it really doesn't do all that much.

It also completely crumples to any form of Backrow removal that isn't taped onto a monster and can be reversed onto your opponent if you can remove your own monsters through some method.

Does it still suck to play against? Yeah, I'd say it is second to only Maxx C in "sucks to deal with" territory, but realistically speaking the prime reason why people hate it more than the roach is because the current state of the meta is an absolute refusal to play backrow hate that isn't in the form of demanding backrow cards be banned.

People hate Skill Drain for similar reasons as Mine, the only difference is that Mine can be searched for and doesn't disable the effects player with less monster cards on the field, which is where most of the rub comes in.

But seriously if the meta somehow went back in time where trap cards that weren't playable from the hand actually mattered or complete floodgates nobody would complain about Mine because every deck would be running 3 copies of whatever the best backrow killer is instead.

Ah yes... this argument again...

I've said it before and I will likely say it again.

If Master Duel were Bo3 I would be considerably more willing to accept Mystic Mine. I don't like to main deck backrow hate because a good half of the decks I duel do not have back row at all. If I could simply side it in for duel 2 it would be fine.

But Master duel is not Bo3. It is Bo1. I don't want to be forced to main deck backrow hate when it will be useless so often. Top decking Harpies Feather Duster vs Branded isn't fun.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Ah yes... this argument again...

I've said it before and I will likely say it again.

If Master Duel were Bo3 I would be considerably more willing to accept Mystic Mine. I don't like to main deck backrow hate because a good half of the decks I duel do not have back row at all. If I could simply side it in for duel 2 it would be fine.

But Master duel is not Bo3. It is Bo1. I don't want to be forced to main deck backrow hate when it will be useless so often. Top decking Harpies Feather Duster vs Branded isn't fun.

Again, I want neither, but the same argument can be leveraged against Maxx C, fail to stop that and you can get buried in handtraps and value, and praying you start with an Ash or CBTG in your hand isn't any better than praying you topdeck HFD or Twin Twister.

Nor is praying you have a DRNM or Droplet like card to enable a board flip that doesn't get slaughtered by a pile of omni-negates.

It's all "draw the out" arguments and honestly just shows how much of a mess everything has become.

[Lazer]

I rather have every deck run 3 cosmic cyclone than 3 Ash and 2 Called by the Grave for Maxx C, modern YGO players are super spoiled these days. They rather whine 24/h on social media than excepting this card and run counters to it. And its Bo3 mind you , the Mystic Mine haters dont even search for a middle ground like calling for Demise of the Land to be banned so it can only be used for going second as Baordbreaker

Respect for who ever at Konami TCG is sticking to their guns on this.

As for Maxx C its super toxic, everyone runs the same cards and in fact it requires more counters than backrow hate for Mystic Mine would. The meta looks degenerate nothing what Yugioh was originally about.

[JKArtorias]

Originally posted by Lazer:

I rather have every deck run 3 cosmic cyclone than 3 Ash and 2 Called by the Grave for Maxx C, modern YGO players are super spoiled these days. They rather whine 24/h on social media than excepting this card and run counters to it. And its Bo3 mind you , the Mystic Mine haters dont even search for a middle ground like calling for Demise of the Land to be banned so it can only be used for going second as Baordbreaker

Respect for who ever at Konami TCG is sticking to their guns on this.

As for Maxx C its super toxic, everyone runs the same cards and in fact it requires more counters than backrow hate for Mystic Mine would. The meta looks degenerate nothing what Yugioh was originally about.

Called By counters most decks. Ash Blossom hurts most decks. Backrow removal only hurts backrow decks.

Explain to me how the ♥♥♥♥ Mystic Mines is healthier. The cards that counter Maxx C are useful most of the time even if you don't see Maxx C in that specific match. I've literally gone days worth of games without seeing a single backrow deck.

Do you know how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying it'd be to run 3 cards for 1 specific card that won't see play besides against that specific card? Sure it's good against Droplet, it's good against Despia, it's good against backrow decks. But those aren't as abundant as something that gets hurt by Called By and Ash Blossom.

Called By even hurts the backrow deck known as Eldlich. Do you know what i can't Called By? MYSTIC MINES.

I don't think we'll see Ash Blossom as much if Maxx C was banned. But holy ♥♥♥♥ do i not wanna see Mystic Mines unbanned. Atleast with Ash Blossom you can use it, in most games with it actually having impact whether it resolves or not. The same won't be said for Mystic Mines counters.

[Fatality]

It is fine. Doesn't guarantee an auto win like C does if it resolves. It is annoying for sure, but it is quite easy to get rid of. Would not be healthy for a BO1, but still prefer it over the one sided massive advantage C gives.

[JKArtorias]

Originally posted by Fatality:

It is fine. Doesn't guarantee an auto win like C does if it resolves. It is annoying for sure, but it is quite easy to get rid of. Would not be healthy for a BO1, but still prefer it over the one sided massive advantage C gives.

Do you want me to retype what i've already typed? Or are you just ignoring it all? lol.

[Aldain]

Overall the crux of the matter to me is that Maxx C warps the meta around it while Mystic Mine is just a huge pain in the arse because non-monster backrow hate is considered a joke outside of killing floodgates since there are basically no other backrow cards played anymore, everyone just trimmed them out to make way for more special summon engine cards.

They're both godawful cards and excuses to keep even worse things around and alive, they're also the excuses for Konami to keep printing more and more powercreep BS so overall we're all screwed in the end.

[TormentedSalad]

Originally posted by Lazer:

I rather have every deck run 3 cosmic cyclone than 3 Ash and 2 Called by the Grave for Maxx C, modern YGO players are super spoiled these days. They rather whine 24/h on social media than excepting this card and run counters to it. And its Bo3 mind you , the Mystic Mine haters dont even search for a middle ground like calling for Demise of the Land to be banned so it can only be used for going second as Baordbreaker

Respect for who ever at Konami TCG is sticking to their guns on this.

As for Maxx C its super toxic, everyone runs the same cards and in fact it requires more counters than backrow hate for Mystic Mine would. The meta looks degenerate nothing what Yugioh was originally about.

VFD shouldn't of been banned then by your logic I've made this comparison before mine is just the spell card version people don't like a dumb field spell that instantly ruins the flow of the game when it is played I can't play the tcg but I completely understand why mine is a hated card it's not that complex

[Papa Shekels]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Overall the crux of the matter to me is that Maxx C warps the meta around it while Mystic Mine is just a huge pain in the arse because non-monster backrow hate is considered a joke outside of killing floodgates since there are basically no other backrow cards played anymore, everyone just trimmed them out to make way for more special summon engine cards.

So in other words, literally a skill issue. People are pretending that backrow isn't a threat and then complain that they didn't prepare for backrow.

I also just don't get the fixation on "backrow decks". Most people I play against set 1-2 cards at the end of their first turn. Called by the grave, infinite impermanence, and forbidden droplet are all staples here that can ruin your whole turn and will be set by your opponent if their starting hand had it. Backrow removal is absolutely worth running just to stop those three cards alone. People have gotten pampered to the point of expecting their monster combos to be the out to any situation, and are refusing to accept that doesn't work when cards exist that specifically counter that mindset.

Like, I don't think it belongs in master duel because this is a faster bo1 format, and it would just unnecessarily slow things down with maxx "C" and DPE turbo everywhere you look. But the excuses against it in TCG are just outright pathetic. I refuse to take anybody seriously if they say backrow isn't a problem but also want to ban backrow cards because they cause their combo decks too much of an issue when they prepare 0 removal for it

[ObsidianButterfly]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

Originally posted by Aldain:

Overall the crux of the matter to me is that Maxx C warps the meta around it while Mystic Mine is just a huge pain in the arse because non-monster backrow hate is considered a joke outside of killing floodgates since there are basically no other backrow cards played anymore, everyone just trimmed them out to make way for more special summon engine cards.

So in other words, literally a skill issue. People are pretending that backrow isn't a threat and then complain that they didn't prepare for backrow.

I also just don't get the fixation on "backrow decks". Most people I play against set 1-2 cards at the end of their first turn. Called by the grave, infinite impermanence, and forbidden droplet are all staples here that can ruin your whole turn and will be set by your opponent if their starting hand had it. Backrow removal is absolutely worth running just to stop those three cards alone. People have gotten pampered to the point of expecting their monster combos to be the out to any situation, and are refusing to accept that doesn't work when cards exist that specifically counter that mindset.

Like, I don't think it belongs in master duel because this is a faster bo1 format, and it would just unnecessarily slow things down with maxx "C" and DPE turbo everywhere you look. But the excuses against it in TCG are just outright pathetic. I refuse to take anybody seriously if they say backrow isn't a problem but also want to ban backrow cards because they cause their combo decks too much of an issue when they prepare 0 removal for it

But if they add more backrow removal, that might hurt their consistency and affect their ability to vomit half their deck and extra deck onto the field during their turn.