Torrential Tribute vs Dark Hole

[tiberiansun371alexw]

I saw a guide which mentioned that Dark Hole was a classic board wipe but it mentioned that combos often end on monsters with protection. Then it mentioned Torrential Tribute could blow up the board if you actually mange to set it and your opponent didn't think to blow up the backrow. Sadly I forgot where I found the guide.

So Dark Hole is just a blow up the board on your turn tool. You play it and don't have to worry about backrow destruction. But some boss monsters with protection will not die to it like Ruin, Supreme Queen of Oblivion (although she offers no protection from banishment so she's not really worth the trouble, but that was just an example), Life Stream Dragon, Number 49: Fortune Tune, Power Tool Dragon, Virtual World Beast - Jiujiu, and Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon for example. Stardust Dragon can negate effects which destroy. Magician of Chaos is destructible but doesn't really care.

Torrential Tribute is a trap and you can activate it when your opponent summons a monster. Most things that negate spells also negate traps, so not much different is here. As a trap, it is vulnerable to blind backrow hate, unless you plop something like Starlight road which means investing 2 cards for the board wipe. And like Dark hole, it also won't destroy indestructible boss monsters. It's true that not every boss monster will survive, but I don't see why monsters with destruction protection would really factor in Torrential Tribute vs Dark Hole. The time to use one of those cards is against things that can be destroyed. If you want a board wipe that can hit monsters without protection, the question of which to pick seems to me to be a question of "when" not "what."

[Silamon]

The thing is, while boss monsters might have negates and protections that would make Dark Hole and Torrential useless, you can use torrential before those monsters are actually on the field and potentially ruin the opponent's entire turn.

Torrential can also be used after any monster is summoned, including your own. It does not need to be a special summon.

The only real downside to Torrential vs Dark hole is the fact it is a trap card. If it were a quick play spell I would say it is better than Dark hole by a huge margin.

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

Torrential can mess with swordsouls before Baronne is summoned, Dark Hole/Raigeki can be activated when it's too late.

Silamon původně napsal:

If it were a quick play spell I would say it is better than Dark hole by a huge margin.

A quick spell with the power of torrential or dark hole it's too broken, probably limited, banned or with a big negative effect for the user.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Silamon původně napsal:

The only real downside to Torrential vs Dark hole is the fact it is a trap card. If it were a quick play spell I would say it is better than Dark hole by a huge margin.

They wanted to make sure each one had their own uses I guess.

[Silamon]

【Ｓｐｅｋ】🧉 původně napsal:

Torrential can mess with swordsouls before Baronne is summoned, Dark Hole/Raigeki can be activated when it's too late.

Silamon původně napsal:

If it were a quick play spell I would say it is better than Dark hole by a huge margin.

A quick spell with the power of torrential or dark hole it's too broken, probably limited, banned or with a big negative effect for the user.

Yeah for sure. Dark Hole would never be a quick play period, but I could see torrential being quick play perhaps with a few extra restrictions on it.

[ChaosBahamut]

Silamon původně napsal:

Torrential can also be used after any monster is summoned, including your own. It does not need to be a special summon.

Could also always use it (or Dark Hole) after summoning your own "Can't be destroyed by card effects" boss monster. Just a thought.

[Silamon]

ChaosBahamut původně napsal:

Silamon původně napsal:

Torrential can also be used after any monster is summoned, including your own. It does not need to be a special summon.

Could also always use it after summoning your own "Can't be destroyed by card effects" boss monster. Just a thought.

I use it regularly in Lyrilusc since Independent nightingale is unaffected and Assembled can make ally lyrical monsters indestructible.

[ChaosBahamut]

Silamon původně napsal:

ChaosBahamut původně napsal:

Could also always use it after summoning your own "Can't be destroyed by card effects" boss monster. Just a thought.

I use it regularly in Lyrilusc since Independent nightingale is unaffected and Assembled can make ally lyrical monsters indestructible.

That archtype gives me PTSD.

(solely due to that Igknight ftk deck that utilizes a Psychic-converted Cyber-Stein, Independent Nightingale, and SKDSV and/or Windwitch - Crystal Bell; may everyone who uses that combo be forced to endure endless afk bots)

[JKArtorias]

ChaosBahamut původně napsal:

Silamon původně napsal:

I use it regularly in Lyrilusc since Independent nightingale is unaffected and Assembled can make ally lyrical monsters indestructible.

That archtype gives me PTSD.

(solely due to that Igknight ftk deck that utilizes a Psychic-converted Cyber-Stein, Independent Nightingale, and SKDSV and/or Windwitch - Crystal Bell; may everyone who uses that combo be forced to endure endless afk bots)

Gives me nightmares from being the 4mat Zeus maker in Drytron. Should not be allowed.

[Silamon]

ChaosBahamut původně napsal:

Silamon původně napsal:

I use it regularly in Lyrilusc since Independent nightingale is unaffected and Assembled can make ally lyrical monsters indestructible.

That archtype gives me PTSD.

(solely due to that Igknight ftk deck that utilizes a Psychic-converted Cyber-Stein, Independent Nightingale, and SKDSV and/or Windwitch - Crystal Bell; may everyone who uses that combo be forced to endure endless afk bots)

Just be glad tyrant neptune is banned. I hated the degen decks that abused it. I hope Starving venom will be hit on MD at some point as well.... Unlikely as that is.

[Rainy days.]

Torrential has cards to search/protect/benefit from/etc, yet people never really use it.

Let that sink in.

[Silamon]

Rainy days. původně napsal:

Torrential has cards to search/protect/benefit from/etc, yet people never really use it.

Let that sink in.

Because it is a trap card.

[Rainy days.]

Silamon původně napsal:

Rainy days. původně napsal:

Torrential has cards to search/protect/benefit from/etc, yet people never really use it.

Let that sink in.

Because it is a trap card.

Exactly.

[ChaosBahamut]

Silamon původně napsal:

ChaosBahamut původně napsal:

That archtype gives me PTSD.

(solely due to that Igknight ftk deck that utilizes a Psychic-converted Cyber-Stein, Independent Nightingale, and SKDSV and/or Windwitch - Crystal Bell; may everyone who uses that combo be forced to endure endless afk bots)

Just be glad tyrant neptune is banned. I hated the degen decks that abused it. I hope Starving venom will be hit on MD at some point as well.... Unlikely as that is.

Honestly giving Cyber-Stein a hard "Once per turn" limit on his effect would likely suffice.

[HeraldOfOpera]

ChaosBahamut původně napsal:

Silamon původně napsal:

Just be glad tyrant neptune is banned. I hated the degen decks that abused it. I hope Starving venom will be hit on MD at some point as well.... Unlikely as that is.

Honestly giving Cyber-Stein a hard "Once per turn" limit on his effect would likely suffice.

Its cost was intended to make it a hard once per duel. Using it twice in a turn only happens due to something else that shouldn't exist.

[Ayrie]

tiberiansun371alexw původně napsal:

I saw a guide which mentioned that Dark Hole was a classic board wipe but it mentioned that combos often end on monsters with protection. Then it mentioned Torrential Tribute could blow up the board if you actually mange to set it and your opponent didn't think to blow up the backrow. Sadly I forgot where I found the guide.

So Dark Hole is just a blow up the board on your turn tool. You play it and don't have to worry about backrow destruction. But some boss monsters with protection will not die to it like Ruin, Supreme Queen of Oblivion (although she offers no protection from banishment so she's not really worth the trouble, but that was just an example), Life Stream Dragon, Number 49: Fortune Tune, Power Tool Dragon, Virtual World Beast - Jiujiu, and Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon for example. Stardust Dragon can negate effects which destroy. Magician of Chaos is destructible but doesn't really care.

Torrential Tribute is a trap and you can activate it when your opponent summons a monster. Most things that negate spells also negate traps, so not much different is here. As a trap, it is vulnerable to blind backrow hate, unless you plop something like Starlight road which means investing 2 cards for the board wipe. And like Dark hole, it also won't destroy indestructible boss monsters. It's true that not every boss monster will survive, but I don't see why monsters with destruction protection would really factor in Torrential Tribute vs Dark Hole. The time to use one of those cards is against things that can be destroyed. If you want a board wipe that can hit monsters without protection, the question of which to pick seems to me to be a question of "when" not "what."

You're looking at the cards wrong. You shouldn't be thinking about either of those two scenarios because both cards lack versatility / are too slow to be worth including in the first place. There is a better alternative called Raigeki which destroys only your opponent's cards... and even that card sees no competitive play.

If you need board breaker cards, consider any of the following instead: Lightning Storm, Evenly Matched, Forbidden Droplet, Dark Ruler No More, Harpie's Feather Duster, and Dinowrestler Pankratops.

Torrential is pretty decent in any trap focused deck like Eldlich and Phantasm Spiral. However, most of those decks would rather play floodgates (Rivalry, Gozen, Skill Drain) instead of Torrential because it is reliant on your opponent doing a specific thing (summoning), whereas you can flip up a floodgate at the most critical moment to get high value from it.