Ash and max should be banned

[Klink Attack]

My 60-card blue eyes deck with all of the god cards should be top-tier, I want Ash and maxx c banned who's with me?

[Blank]

Leave Ash Blossom alone you monster

[JKArtorias]

Nah ban Called By the Grave.

[UwU King👑Pikachu]

no hand traps should be banned , max is banned in TCG

[EXO]

Bad bait.

[Klink Attack]

Originally posted by EXO:

Bad bait.

I am right though. Its also because you're looking at a mirror.

[Aerond]

What are you, 12?

[Dr. Raven]

I mean it's bait. But the idea of cards being so universally good that every deck is forced to run them is true. If a card is present in over 50% of all decks in platinum or higher it says a lot about the game and meta. Says a lot about the players defending this too if that's the goal here. If a card is so so good that essentially not putting it in your deck or hell not drawing it will result in you losing, then said card is OP and said meta unhealthy.


That was pretty much the main issue with cards like deliquint duo and pot of greed back then. Of course every deck ran them so one couldn't say either play was getting an unfair advantage or anything technically.

[Rainy days.]

>60 card Blue Eyes
With all the “support” it has, that honestly sounds about right

[Perquisitore]

I'm okay with them, I'm not okay with skill drain without limitations.

[Aldain]

Ash is fine, Maxx C should be thrown in a woodchipper.

[TormentedSalad]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

I mean it's bait. But the idea of cards being so universally good that every deck is forced to run them is true. If a card is present in over 50% of all decks in platinum or higher it says a lot about the game and meta. Says a lot about the players defending this too if that's the goal here. If a card is so so good that essentially not putting it in your deck or hell not drawing it will result in you losing, then said card is OP and said meta unhealthy.


That was pretty much the main issue with cards like deliquint duo and pot of greed back then. Of course every deck ran them so one couldn't say either play was getting an unfair advantage or anything technically.

this argument only really holds the cards in question are high impact maxx C is however plenty of decks can play through an ash blossom it can catch a poor hand but ash isnt a show stopper in most cases

[Dr. Raven]

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

I mean it's bait. But the idea of cards being so universally good that every deck is forced to run them is true. If a card is present in over 50% of all decks in platinum or higher it says a lot about the game and meta. Says a lot about the players defending this too if that's the goal here. If a card is so so good that essentially not putting it in your deck or hell not drawing it will result in you losing, then said card is OP and said meta unhealthy.


That was pretty much the main issue with cards like deliquint duo and pot of greed back then. Of course every deck ran them so one couldn't say either play was getting an unfair advantage or anything technically.

this argument only really holds the cards in question are high impact maxx C is however plenty of decks can play through an ash blossom it can catch a poor hand but ash isnt a show stopper in most cases

It doesn't have to be a show stopper. Reality is it is sometimes, in fact a proper timed Ash Blossom can and does cripple some of the most powerful decks. Maxx C just forces combo decks to avoid doing a 10 summon turn without paying a massive cost, that doesn't mean it isn't mandatory. Neither cards are instant wins but 100% they are essentially required cards for ladder climbing. Hence why the amount of decks that don't have one or both of them in platinum and above are probably a rare event.


Just like decks didn't need graceful charity or pot of greed to win back in the insane days where they weren't banned, hell they probably weren't even drawn all that often considering the limit of 1. It's just a deck with them was objectively superior to a deck without.

[TormentedSalad]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

this argument only really holds the cards in question are high impact maxx C is however plenty of decks can play through an ash blossom it can catch a poor hand but ash isnt a show stopper in most cases

It doesn't have to be a show stopper. Reality is it is sometimes, in fact a proper timed Ash Blossom can and does cripple some of the most powerful decks. Maxx C just forces combo decks to avoid doing a 10 summon turn without paying a massive cost, that doesn't mean it isn't mandatory. Neither cards are instant wins but 100% they are essentially required cards for ladder climbing. Hence why the amount of decks that don't have one or both of them in platinum and above are probably a rare event.


Just like decks didn't need graceful charity or pot of greed to win back in the insane days where they weren't banned, hell they probably weren't even drawn all that often considering the limit of 1. It's just a deck with them was objectively superior to a deck without.

ok but if you play into maxx C its not all that different than hitting the surrender button ash can be crippling and is entirely crippling to some decks but the most successful decks its just inconvenient unless you have a bad hand theres a world of difference between the two i never said ash was weak i just claimed it was a rather low impact hand trap not like maxx C or nibiru

[Dr. Raven]

Originally posted by TormentedSalad:

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

It doesn't have to be a show stopper. Reality is it is sometimes, in fact a proper timed Ash Blossom can and does cripple some of the most powerful decks. Maxx C just forces combo decks to avoid doing a 10 summon turn without paying a massive cost, that doesn't mean it isn't mandatory. Neither cards are instant wins but 100% they are essentially required cards for ladder climbing. Hence why the amount of decks that don't have one or both of them in platinum and above are probably a rare event.


Just like decks didn't need graceful charity or pot of greed to win back in the insane days where they weren't banned, hell they probably weren't even drawn all that often considering the limit of 1. It's just a deck with them was objectively superior to a deck without.

ok but if you play into maxx C its not all that different than hitting the surrender button ash can be crippling and is entirely crippling to some decks but the most successful decks its just inconvenient unless you have a bad hand theres a world of difference between the two i never said ash was weak i just claimed it was a rather low impact hand trap not like maxx C or nibiru

Same can really be said about Maxx C and Nibiru tbh. Plenty of decks can play around Maxx C by merit of not being combo decks, such as Eldlich or ending their combo early, or using called by the grave/ash blossom on the card. I guess difference with Nibiru being it's probably very normal in usage in MD because it's far more situational compared to Ash and Maxx C, same with Kaiju cards. Because every deck in platinum involves draw power/special summoning, but 5 special summons is at least not as free. And Kaiju doesn't necessarily solve big problems in meaningful ways.



I guess the only argument against these cards being banned is that the only reason they're so good and powerful is because every meta deck heavily relies on a swath of special summons and draw power. But that then goes back to my original point that it says something about the meta that everyone NEEDS to dedicate 3-6 cards to run the exact same counters to the most Meta ♥♥♥♥ to be viable.

[Bad Distraction Carnifex]

Maxx 'C' is a hand trap floodgate that lasts the entire turn WITH A LINGERING EFFECT. It shouldn't have even been printed and there's better, healthier cards in the game to screw with combo decks, be it Nibiru or stuff like Evenly Matched or Dark Ruler No More.

Ash is fine though, sure it's overbloated with effects but it's typically a 1-4-1 in card advantage which helps make it balanced.