How good are Blue-Eyes, Red-Eyes, Dark Magician decks.

[Chaos 混沌 カオス]

1) Pure Blue-Eyes is a very different deck from Chaos Max. And it's generally not advised to mix the two. Even with Deep of Blue-Eyes you at most play 1 copy of Chaos Max and Form but that's only to elevate the potential power ceiling of the deck, not an actual win con.

Is a deck revolving around Chaos Max better than pure Blue-Eyes? Unless Blue-Eyes goes for non-Blue-Eyes EX deck plays and can consistently do so, I would think that's the case for now.

2) Black Magician makes pretty decent boards, but they're not hard to deal with, and they lack decent protection. They also need Dragoon of Red-Eyes but we can't have nice things, ban Anaconda already.

3) I have seen ZERO Red-Eyes decks in MD, barring that one solo mission. Wouldn't know how good are they.

I would imagine with Dragoon, DM decks would be 10x better than it is now, and still better than Red-Eyes decks. Maybe even better than all Blue-Eyes decks.

[Energon Vlada]

They suck.

[MancakeBR]

Dark Magician is okay, but still bad.

Blue-Eyes is known as Brick-Eyes. It's another deck that isn't good.

Red-Eyes doesn't know what the ♥♥♥♥ it wants to be, which makes it really bad.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by MancakeBR:

Red-Eyes doesn't know what the ♥♥♥♥ it wants to be, which makes it really bad.

Red-Eyes is said to have unlimited potential, so in its pursuit of finding his ultimate calling, he tried everything from being a sword, fusion, burn, poetry, theater and even music, but so far has yet to find his meaning in life.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

People won't stop using Dragoon even if you ban Anaconda.

How are you gonna stop VW from using it?

Or what about Eldlich or other control decks that really couldn't care less about the restriction on REF?

[MancakeBR]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

People won't stop using Dragoon even if you ban Anaconda.

How are you gonna stop VW from using it?

Or what about Eldlich or other control decks that really couldn't care less about the restriction on REF?

It isn't about stopping decks from using it. It's about making it not as easily accessible.

[JuataLinuxGamer]

Red-Eyes is pure garbage, it's not worth anybody's time.

Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes are kinda workable, but do not expect to climb the ladder with them.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by MancakeBR:

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

People won't stop using Dragoon even if you ban Anaconda.

How are you gonna stop VW from using it?

Or what about Eldlich or other control decks that really couldn't care less about the restriction on REF?

It isn't about stopping decks from using it. It's about making it not as easily accessible.

Was actually planning to show a whole combo, but meh.

VW can summon Tzolkin, use its effect, synchro into Muddy Mudragon and them use its effect to Fusion summon using itself and Tzolkin to summon Dragoon.

Sure, I don't get the burn, but I get the negate and huge ass monster that only gets bigger.

[Energon Vlada]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Originally posted by MancakeBR:

Red-Eyes doesn't know what the ♥♥♥♥ it wants to be, which makes it really bad.

Red-Eyes is said to have unlimited potential, so in its pursuit of finding his ultimate calling, he tried everything from being a sword, fusion, burn, poetry, theater and even music, but so far has yet to find his meaning in life.

Honestly Red Eyes should be a burn deck. Dark Magician has Utility, Blue Eyes is Beatdown, so why not? He's a fire based dragon too (not by attribute, I mean aesthetically).

[KenderMystic]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Originally posted by MancakeBR:

It isn't about stopping decks from using it. It's about making it not as easily accessible.

Was actually planning to show a whole combo, but meh.

VW can summon Tzolkin, use its effect, synchro into Muddy Mudragon and them use its effect to Fusion summon using itself and Tzolkin to summon Dragoon.

Sure, I don't get the burn, but I get the negate and huge ass monster that only gets bigger.

Also people can just use Cyber Stein or The Dark - Hex Sealed Fusion.

Also also I don't get where people are getting this idea that "DM needs Dragoon to be good." They really don't. If anything, Red-Eyes builds that aren't Inferno Fire Blast FTK need it way more. DM can still do a fair amount without Dragoon.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by KenderMystic:

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Was actually planning to show a whole combo, but meh.

VW can summon Tzolkin, use its effect, synchro into Muddy Mudragon and them use its effect to Fusion summon using itself and Tzolkin to summon Dragoon.

Sure, I don't get the burn, but I get the negate and huge ass monster that only gets bigger.

Also people can just use Cyber Stein or The Dark - Hex Sealed Fusion.

Also also I don't get where people are getting this idea that "DM needs Dragoon to be good." They really don't. If anything, Red-Eyes builds that aren't Inferno Fire Blast FTK need it way more. DM can still do a fair amount without Dragoon.

People think that they need the powerhouse card, but what stops say, Guru control from running 3 REF and 3 REI to search it? Having those gives them ~60% chance to open either, allowing them to start Dragoon and still do their plays as normal.

Or any other control deck from doing the same?

Or any other deck that syncro summons from accessing Dragoon via Muddy Mudragon, or any deck as you said via Dark Hex Seal?

I do find it amusing that people think that taking away Verte will discourage Dragoon use.

If this community is one thing, it's very resourceful when it comes to breaking cards.

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

The BE synchros are just used as part of branching off into other ED.

[Chaos 混沌 カオス]

I don't necessarily see Dragoon being used outside of its intended deck is a bad thing.

Obviously in a perfect world, it should get an errata that makes it stay in its intended deck.

The example decks listed can already go into Bow Waifu Goddess, Savage Dragon, Accesscode etc. pretty easily. All of them with similar "problems" Dragoon has.

Unless people want the banlist to be the size of an encyclopedia set, but then that's just different values.

Originally posted by Big Bridge.mp4:

The BE synchros are just used as part of branching off into other ED.

Yep.

[Sparse Dunes]

Biggest issue with any of these decks is that they die if you so much as sneeze on it.
Eternal Soul is like one of their only decent forms of protection for B/DM has(well, in the current state anyway) and it's a laughable card.

Blue Eyes wil always be the "aww, look. It's trying to make a board" kind of deck. It can make decent enough set ups for what it has, but again what you end up with is just big unga bungas.

Red Eyes is just...well its a thing.

[Zelwy]

all those decks are decent, people say are bad but are average is the casual deck department, so eh.

[DeathDweller]

As a DM main i don't have any big problem getting to plat 1. Have in mind the current meta, with the right moves you can beat almost everything.

The main problems are 2, you can't do much against lockout decks if you go second (well that's the case for most decks anyway) and you need to rely on spell/traps.

Magician's combination has really won matches for me especially if you run 2 copies but you need to know when to use it.

So in all DM is definitely leagues above Blue Eyes as it can take down Sky Strikers, Eldlich, Tri-Brigade, etc. and given the opportunity, it can control the field on even harder decks like Drytrons etc.