*sigh* This is for the net deckers:

[Raven]

Listen, some cards are frustrating you, skill drain, imperial order, people running eldlich or backrow heavy decks that are "ruining the game". Here is the thing, the decks you are copying have several things you don't understand: 1) a side deck 2) a meta that wasn't overly reliant on back row. Why is every deck main decking 3x maxx c and 3x ash, 2x call? because hand traps and mass spamming is the meta that was being addressed.

If the people countering that are playing more stun and control, i.e. skill drain decks, then you give up something that's not as relevant. You can cut Maxx C for Twin twisters if you're running into set 5 back row and pass. Harpie's feather duster is your one-get-out-jail free card that people seem to have in their decks, but as people swap to more control oriented builds, you need to switch your strategy as well. The copied decks weren't meant to be "forever and it works", they were designed with a format in mind.

Things that make those backrow decks fall apart:
-Harpie's Feather duster
-Twin Twisters
-Galaxy Cyclone (I am quite partial to this one even though its slow since it plays around imperial order)
-Mystical Space Typhoon
-cosmic cyclone

for the love of Ra, look at your extra deck for answers. Put a damn number 101 if you have issues with can't be destroyed by battle or effects if you have rank 4 access. Put exciteon in if you need a back up for zeus. I get why you don't want to "ruin your main deck" with things you think are niche answers, but the thing is, if those niche things are becoming more and more common, then you need to work them into your deck. There is a reason you don't see the same exact deck winning 3 YCS in a row. It's not just due to new sets and support, people literally are like "gee, this deck is popular and its key cards are back row, I'll run more back row hate" or...and this is where master duel lies... "Gee, people are running massive swarm summoning mechanics, I'll run a bunch of hand traps to stun it"

^when everyone is running hand traps and zero outs to back row...what do people do? Add more back row. Hand traps become less useful, back row hate becomes more useful. I don't know what else to tell you guys, the game isn't "broken" or "bad", you need to understand what your playing against. There is 10,000 cards, you can literally make an anti-eldlich deck that just completely screws them over at the cost of everything else. That doesn't matter though when 70% of the decks you play against are eldlich. Is this making it more clear for people?

[Papa Shekels]

Wait, so the people crying about skill drain and eldlitch are the net deckers? I thought the people using those cards were net deckers. Is this just another insult like simp or racist that holds absolutely no meaning anymore?

[Raven]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

Wait, so the people crying about skill drain and eldlitch are the net deckers? I thought the people using those cards were net deckers. Is this just another insult like simp or racist that holds absolutely no meaning anymore?

There is 3 major signs to netdecking, and you can see them often in posts on here:

1) doesn't actually know what their cards do, just how to perform a combo without variance
2) gets upset that their deck can't win a certain match up when match up is clearly bad
3) absolute refusal to change their deck around to counter #2 sign, which also is linked to #1. They can't work out varying combos to accomplish the goal of the deck if they change the deck.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking down on net deckers. I highly encourage net decking in fact, but that is to LEARN and DISCOVER new play styles. Hell, I recommend net decking just so you can learn how to play something you hate so you know what they are trying to do, once you know their goal, then you know what makes it fall apart. It's absolutely fine to net deck and figure out your plays, but if you're doing it just to get some wins, you're missing the point of the game entirely.

[Raven]

Originally posted by gredora:

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

Wait, so the people crying about skill drain and eldlitch are the net deckers? I thought the people using those cards were net deckers. Is this just another insult like simp or racist that holds absolutely no meaning anymore?

The anti-netdeck groups don't realize that netdecking is literally how you’ll get better at the game. You’ll understand how other decks work better as well and how to counter it.

Don't misunderstand my post, I'm not trying to call out net decking, I just want those people to understand that if you take a list without understanding a few caveats about it, you're not going to have a fun time. Net decking shouldn't be for the sake of just winning, I wanted to draw attention to the flaws, so people can have more fun.

[Papa Shekels]

Originally posted by Raven:

There is 3 major signs to netdecking, and you can see them often in posts on here:

1) doesn't actually know what their cards do, just how to perform a combo without variance
2) gets upset that their deck can't win a certain match up when match up is clearly bad
3) absolute refusal to change their deck around to counter #2 sign, which also is linked to #1. They can't work out varying combos to accomplish the goal of the deck if they change the deck.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking down on net deckers. I highly encourage net decking in fact, but that is to LEARN and DISCOVER new play styles. Hell, I recommend net decking just so you can learn how to play something you hate so you know what they are trying to do, once you know their goal, then you know what makes it fall apart. It's absolutely fine to net deck and figure out your plays, but if you're doing it just to get some wins, you're missing the point of the game entirely.

All right, then by those standards nearly everybody I've seen complaining about net decking was actually the one doing it. This whole argument was stupid from the first time I saw it but at this point I feel like it's just people looking to whine about anything and everything

[Raven]

Tip for people about coming meta: people are already putting artifacts in their decks in the TCG and such. Why? because the TCG is currently shifting from hand trap/mass summoning to backrow/stun. Is that true for Master Duel? Can't say. But a lot of decks you look up are going to reflect that in the coming future.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

Originally posted by Raven:

There is 3 major signs to netdecking, and you can see them often in posts on here:

1) doesn't actually know what their cards do, just how to perform a combo without variance
2) gets upset that their deck can't win a certain match up when match up is clearly bad
3) absolute refusal to change their deck around to counter #2 sign, which also is linked to #1. They can't work out varying combos to accomplish the goal of the deck if they change the deck.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking down on net deckers. I highly encourage net decking in fact, but that is to LEARN and DISCOVER new play styles. Hell, I recommend net decking just so you can learn how to play something you hate so you know what they are trying to do, once you know their goal, then you know what makes it fall apart. It's absolutely fine to net deck and figure out your plays, but if you're doing it just to get some wins, you're missing the point of the game entirely.

All right, then by those standards nearly everybody I've seen complaining about net decking was actually the one doing it. This whole argument was stupid from the first time I saw it but at this point I feel like it's just people looking to whine about anything and everything

Hence my patience is short and I've gotten less helpful/more rude with my posts. People are frustrating the bejeezus out of me.

[76561199247542427]

master duel have no side deck

[Wicked]

"Here is the thing, the decks you are copying have several things you don't understand: 1) a side deck 2) a meta that wasn't overly reliant on back row."

That's literally the whole point of the frustration in MD.

No Side decks.

It has less to do with netdecking, but more with the fact that you cannot build any deck properly or properly against every deck because of BO1 without the possibility of side decking. Some decks have insane leeway with handtraps and backrow hate, others barely allow you a few handtraps without bricking.

Most of the current meta decks don't have an actual backrow, so you either take something from everything and hope you just draw the out when you face something like Eldlich with a heavy backrow and hope again he doesn't solemn you, or you focus on the majority of meta decks, which are not backrow focused - so you instead run anything else that keeps them from combo'ing you, draw from their deck, nibiru their ass, or pull yourself due to maxx c, which at the other end is completely useless against Eldlich.

Today I've barely run into Eldlich and mostly into Lirylusc, Tri-Bribrigades and weird meme decks. Yesterday Tri-Brigades and Drytrons. Tomorrow maybe only Eldliches or Stundecks.

They could literally keep it being BO1 but tell you the opponents deck type after the coinflip and let you sidedeck for 20s or so, which would make the state of the game more healthy.

You mention meta and tell people should swap maxx c for backrow hate if the meta shifts to control oriented decks, but the current meta is not control oriented. It's exactly the outliner. So if you were to build around meta, you would build more handtraps and less backrow hate.

[Raven]

Originally posted by flameKnight:

master duel have no side deck

why yes. yes, that is my point.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Wicked:

"Here is the thing, the decks you are copying have several things you don't understand: 1) a side deck 2) a meta that wasn't overly reliant on back row."

That's literally the whole point of the frustration in MD.

No Side decks.

It has less to do with netdecking, but more with the fact that you cannot build any deck properly or properly against every deck because of BO1 without the possibility of side decking. Some decks have insane leeway with handtraps and backrow hate, others barely allow you a few handtraps without bricking.

Most of the current meta decks don't have an actual backrow, so you either take something from everything and hope you just draw the out when you face something like Eldlich with a heavy backrow and hope again he doesn't solemn you, or you focus on the majority of meta decks, which are not backrow focused - so you instead run anything else that keeps them from combo'ing you, draw from their deck, nibiru their ass, or pull yourself due to maxx c, which at the other end is completely useless against Eldlich.

Today I've barely run into Eldlich and mostly into Lirylusc, Tri-Bribrigades and weird meme decks. Yesterday Tri-Brigades and Drytrons. Tomorrow maybe only Eldliches or Stundecks.

They could literally keep it being BO1 but tell you the opponents deck type after the coinflip and let you sidedeck for 20s or so, which would make the state of the game more healthy.

I do believe its in the name. I think people forgot the terms matter, especially in yugioh.

This is Master DUEL, if we played matches it would be just Yu-gi-oh. Not being able to side does suck, but that's why its important people figure out...you just have bad match-ups. You can't side, but you can still grind wins, just figure out what you mostly run into or just play something rogue that generally screws over most decks you have issues with.

[Wicked]

Originally posted by Raven:

I do believe its in the name. I think people forgot the terms matter, especially in yugioh.

This is Master DUEL, if we played matches it would be just Yu-gi-oh. Not being able to side does suck, but that's why its important people figure out...you just have bad match-ups. You can't side, but you can still grind wins, just figure out what you mostly run into or just play something rogue that generally screws over most decks you have issues with.

In the current format it's unavoidable, I agree. And it is something you gotta just accept and deal with by adjusting your deck as good as possible. Obviously.

It still doesn't take away that you lose to match ups you would/ could otherwise win if you had access to a side deck OR would've just won the cointoss otherwise. Which I think is the source for most frustration.

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

I still having fun, so I don't care

[Archmage MC]

HFD isn't a good choice vs a true set 5 pass deck, as they'll run Wake the Dragon, and you'll be staring down a 5k beater with spell/trap negate or a 3.5k thing with no way to get rid of it short of kaiju/running it over. Or something that shuts down your summoning entirely.

If you want to really counter that deck, Red Reboot is the way to go.

[Prokaizer]

You either run a lot of backrow removal cards or you run alot of handtraps.

You need searchers / combo cards / combo extenders which will take you around +-20 cards in your deck and this will be your main strategy.

Then you either run x10+- handtraps or backrow removals.

You are left with another 10 cards that will be occupied with a second strategy or some broken cards.

But guess what, it's all about your starting hand, no ammount of backrow removal cards is going to save you, if you don't draw your key cards.
You might get your backrow removal cards, but you won't get your called by the grave or your nobleman crossout and your opponent will negate your combo with a handtrap and you will lose.

Telling people to run a lot of backrows is a joke.

[Papa Shekels]

Originally posted by Prokaizer:

But guess what, it's all about your starting hand, no ammount of backrow removal cards is going to save you, if you don't draw your key cards.
You might get your backrow removal cards, but you won't get your called by the grave or your nobleman crossout and your opponent will negate your combo with a handtrap and you will lose.

Telling people to run a lot of backrows is a joke.

This weird victim mentality people here have always gets me. You do realize that you're playing against a human opponent and not a cheating AI, right? And that your opponent has all the exact same luck-based restrictions that you do? Your opponent is just as likely as you are to not draw into any of their hand traps and therefore let you pull off your own combos without a hitch. I don't understand this weird idea people have that your opponent always has a perfect hand and either you counter it or lose turn 1. It's like you need to find anything at all to make it clear it's not your fault you lost even though it's a luck-based card game.

If you have the tools, you can win. If you don't, you improvise. That's why having a deck with searches and different outs and various extra deck tools for easy access is so important. And that's why cards like triple tactics talent or the forbidden spells are so popular, because having multiple effects allows you to improvise much better. Sometimes you just do not have anything to work with and then you have to realize it's a single BO1 duel and just accept that like an adult. A single duel means nothing, it's about the long-term win rate and building a consistent deck is what improves that