Dark hex sealed fusion didn't let me summon winda

[A_Muse_ing]

Why?

[Firewalk]

Winda's text:

"1 "Shaddoll" monster + 1 DARK monster
Must first be Fusion Summoned. Cannot be destroyed by an opponent's card effects. Each player can only Special Summon monster(s) once per turn while this card is face-up on the field. If this card is sent to the GY: You can target 1 "Shaddoll" Spell/Trap in your GY; add it to your hand."

Dark Hex Sealed Fusion's text:

"You can substitute this card for any 1 Fusion Material Monster, but the other Fusion Material Monster(s) must be correct. You can Tribute Fusion Material Monsters on the field, including this face-up card; Special Summon 1 corresponding DARK Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck."

Note the text in bold. The catch is that Hex Sealed Fusion's effect doesn't count as a proper Fusion Summon. Ordinarily this wouldn't be a problem, but Winda specifies that it has to be Fusion Summoned.

- RA -

[EXO]

To add to the comment above, monsters like Dark Hex Sealed Fusion that can substitute a fusion material can only replace specific monsters, they cannot replace "1 "Shaddoll monster" or 1 DARK monster.
For example a monster like Dark Cavalry which requires "Dark Magician" + 1 Warrior monster
Hex sealed fusion can only replace Dark Magician

[Rainy days.]

Originally posted by EXO:

To add to the comment above, monsters like Dark Hex Sealed Fusion that can substitute a fusion material can only replace specific monsters, they cannot replace "1 "Shaddoll monster" or 1 DARK monster.

Technically, since Dark Hex is a DARK monster, you can still Shad Fusion using it as said DARK monster.

[EXO]

Originally posted by Rainy days.:

Originally posted by EXO:

To add to the comment above, monsters like Dark Hex Sealed Fusion that can substitute a fusion material can only replace specific monsters, they cannot replace "1 "Shaddoll monster" or 1 DARK monster.

Technically, since Dark Hex is a DARK monster, you can still Shad Fusion using it as said DARK monster.

If you use Shaddoll Fusion yes, but this thread is about Dark Hex Sealed Fusion's effect, so Shad fusion is completely irrelevant.

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

Originally posted by EXO:

To add to the comment above, monsters like Dark Hex Sealed Fusion that can substitute a fusion material can only replace specific monsters, they cannot replace "1 "Shaddoll monster" or 1 DARK monster.
For example a monster like Dark Cavalry which requires "Dark Magician" + 1 Warrior monster
Hex sealed fusion can only replace Dark Magician

Wrong, you can summon starving venom with this card

[Maya-Neko]

Originally posted by Spek:

Originally posted by EXO:

To add to the comment above, monsters like Dark Hex Sealed Fusion that can substitute a fusion material can only replace specific monsters, they cannot replace "1 "Shaddoll monster" or 1 DARK monster.
For example a monster like Dark Cavalry which requires "Dark Magician" + 1 Warrior monster
Hex sealed fusion can only replace Dark Magician

Wrong, you can summon starving venom with this card

Yeah, in that case you can use it directly as a proper fusion material, as it is a dark monster itself already, so no need to use it as a substitute. It's a "can"-condition after all.

That said it can be used for Winda, but only through the effect of a card, that would fusion summon Winda properly.

[EXO]

Originally posted by Spek:

Originally posted by EXO:

To add to the comment above, monsters like Dark Hex Sealed Fusion that can substitute a fusion material can only replace specific monsters, they cannot replace "1 "Shaddoll monster" or 1 DARK monster.
For example a monster like Dark Cavalry which requires "Dark Magician" + 1 Warrior monster
Hex sealed fusion can only replace Dark Magician

Wrong, you can summon starving venom with this card

But that is because Starving Venom just says 2 dark monsters on the field and at that point you are not replacing materials because Dark Hex is already a Dark Monster and the fusion effect will work because you already have 2 darks.
Try using Earth - Hex to summon Starving Venom

[HeraldOfOpera]

By the way: Hex-Sealed Fusion's summoning effects are not considered Fusion Summons and therefore cannot be used to summon stuff like Winda that specifies it has to be Fusion Summoned.

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

Originally posted by EXO:

Originally posted by Spek:

Wrong, you can summon starving venom with this card

But that is because Starving Venom just says 2 dark monsters on the field and at that point you are not replacing materials because Dark Hex is already a Dark Monster and the fusion effect will work because you already have 2 darks.
Try using Earth - Hex to summon Starving Venom

So, you're saying "+1 Dark monster" and "2 Dark monsters" aren't the same kind of Dark monster?

[EXO]

Originally posted by Spek:

Originally posted by EXO:

But that is because Starving Venom just says 2 dark monsters on the field and at that point you are not replacing materials because Dark Hex is already a Dark Monster and the fusion effect will work because you already have 2 darks.
Try using Earth - Hex to summon Starving Venom

So, you're saying "+1 Dark monster" and "2 Dark monsters" aren't the same kind of Dark monster?

What I’m saying is that Dark Hex is not replacing anything because is already a correct material for starving venom and it’s effect to special summon fusion monsters don’t depend on it replacing materials. If starving venom said 1 level 8 Dark Monster, then hex sealed cannot replace it and this goes back to what i said at the start, fusion substitutes can only replace specific monsters

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

Originally posted by EXO:

Originally posted by Spek:

So, you're saying "+1 Dark monster" and "2 Dark monsters" aren't the same kind of Dark monster?

What I’m saying is that Dark Hex is not replacing anything because is already a correct material for starving venom and it’s effect to special summon fusion monsters don’t depend on it replacing materials. If starving venom said 1 level 8 Dark Monster, then hex sealed cannot replace it and this goes back to what i said at the start, fusion substitutes can only replace specific monsters

So, Hex can works in Winda if it doesn't have the "Must be fusion summoned"

[Zoie Shales]

Originally posted by Spek:

Originally posted by EXO:

What I’m saying is that Dark Hex is not replacing anything because is already a correct material for starving venom and it’s effect to special summon fusion monsters don’t depend on it replacing materials. If starving venom said 1 level 8 Dark Monster, then hex sealed cannot replace it and this goes back to what i said at the start, fusion substitutes can only replace specific monsters

So, Hex can works in Winda if it doesn't have the "Must be fusion summoned"

If you are not using Hex's "You can Tribute Fusion Material Monsters on the field, including this face-up card; Special Summon 1 corresponding DARK Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck." effect and are actually fusing them, yes.

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

Originally posted by Zoie Shales:

Originally posted by Spek:

So, Hex can works in Winda if it doesn't have the "Must be fusion summoned"

If you are not using Hex's "You can Tribute Fusion Material Monsters on the field, including this face-up card; Special Summon 1 corresponding DARK Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck." effect and are actually fusing them, yes.

???

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by Spek:

Originally posted by Zoie Shales:

If you are not using Hex's "You can Tribute Fusion Material Monsters on the field, including this face-up card; Special Summon 1 corresponding DARK Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck." effect and are actually fusing them, yes.

???

If you activate Polymerization or Shaddoll Fusion, you can use Hex and any Shaddoll to summon Winda the way you'd expect to.

If you try to use Hex's innate summon effect, that's not a real Fusion Summon and thus Shaddoll fusions are forever barred to you.

If you try to use Super Polymerization, Hex's substitution effect won't let it count as a Shaddoll (but this might work anyways if you're fighting another Shadoll deck)

[【𝙎𝙥𝙚𝙠】🧉]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

Originally posted by Spek:

???

If you activate Polymerization or Shaddoll Fusion, you can use Hex and any Shaddoll to summon Winda the way you'd expect to.

If you try to use Hex's innate summon effect, that's not a real Fusion Summon and thus Shaddoll fusions are forever barred to you.

If you try to use Super Polymerization, Hex's substitution effect won't let it count as a Shaddoll (but this might work anyways if you're fighting another Shadoll deck)

the point is?