I am an unhappy torpedo

[tuizentfloot]

Dear Developer, I was aimed correctly at my target destroyer. It detected me some 10s before impact? and then accelerated from 15 tot +30 knots in no time and changed course at an incredible rate. So i missed. I know that games have to keep up the pace. But my speed was realistic, its acceleration in the real world would have taken + 20 min, with a tyrling rate probably not better than 6°/s. So how can my player give me a decent hitting chance? And yes , I know my player's sub acceleration is with 8s ot max speed much higher than the 0.05m/s² I found to be true for modern conventional submerged subs. Enjoying it anyway.

[Panic Ensues]

Originally posted by tuizentfloot:

So how can my player give me a decent hitting chance?

Dear Unhappy Torpedo,

Tell your player about the following things they can do to increase your chance of hitting an enemy destroyer:

1) Play at a lower difficulty level: Enemy detection ranges increase with each difficulty level.

2) Attack at night: Enemy detection ranges are reduced by the dark of night.

3) Attack in poor weather conditions: Enemy detection ranges are reduced by wind, rain, fog, and cloud cover.

4) Upgrade yourself to the Mark 18: I'm sure you're a fine, brave, and handsome torpedo, but the Mark 18's electric motors don't emit any smoke or steam, so are harder for enemies to spot.

5) Fire from depth: You can't be spotted by enemies until you surface; if you are fired from greater depth, you will surface closer to the enemy target, giving them less time to spot you. If your player positions their sub so that the torpedo track line turns from red to green just before crossing the target, you will impact seconds after surfacing, leaving them no time to react. (Note: That trick probably won't work on Sim difficulty, where you can't be fired from below 100 feet.)

6) Lead the target: Whether manually targeting or using the TDC combined with periscope/binoculars, aim just in front of the target ship; if it spots you and accelerates, it has less chance to avoid you.

7) Complain to the developer: If enough people agree that destroyers accelerate too quickly, he might be persuaded to dial it back.

Hope that helps you fulfill your lifelong goal of smashing your head against an enemy hull until you blow up!

[OleGreyGhost]

Very well put.

Except # 7 should be, anything under 1000 yds; the closer the better while aiming at the bow. TDC defaults to amidships & this will guarantee a miss.

8) Complain to the developer.

No complaints here about the destroyers.

Assessed the risk versus reward & learned to adjust my tactics......

[genhay]

I seldom attack Destroyers or Sub chasers for the reason stated in GreyGhost's reply (their tonnage isn't worth a torpedo). An exception to this would be if there's only one Destroyer / Sub Chaser escorting a convoy. If you sink the escort you might be able to sink the remaining ships with your deck gun. I found the best way to do this is maneuver your sub to "point blank" range ( You can do this by approaching underwater as the escorts don't seem to ping until they're attacking you). I try to get within 750 yds. A hit is still not guaranteed, but the chance is way better than firing from 1500 yds.

Also, I like the challenge of evading the escorts once you attack a convoy. Do you "go deep and get out of Dodge", or do you try to engage? Neat stuff.

[Drellan]

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks for starting it.

I play at Sim level, and just don't see the benefit/risk ratio of firing at destroyers (much less the Sub-Chasers). Their evasion - acceleration and turning speed - seem simply unrealistic and the odds of hitting one do not justify the risks associated with him and all his friends hunting me for the next 15 minutes.

FWIW, I no longer do the aviator/spy/POW rescues either. There seems to be no way to do these missions without taking some hits - which doesn't justify (in my mind) the risk to my crew and Gato.

Great game that I am enjoying - although I do question if at Sim level the risks as compared to WWII are overstated.

[OleGreyGhost]

750 is still a mite long, I have had much more success around 500 yds. This will just about guarantee that hit.

Just remember, they shoot back........

[tuizentfloot]

This is a happy torpedo writing. I've got my upgrade to MK18 and that did the trick. My player, playing the hard level, tried the other tricks before, but overlooked this upgrade, thinking it was included in the many upgrades proposed for custom battle.
He wouldn't dare to complain to the developer, who is doing a great job.
He admits though secretely hoping that in a future update turning rate and acceleration will be moddable . I think it is just his engineering trained brain having problems to see this as a game and not a simulator looking at all possible and impossible factors involved in accelerating or turning a ship.
Thanks again.

[tuizentfloot]

I agree with my collegue hunters: only attack destroyers when you need to. Genhay cited one of these exceptions. Another could be when attacking a convoy at anchor in undeep waters. The escorts fast start-up could ruin your day, because your possible evading actions are limited.

[OleGreyGhost]

Risk versus reward !!

Shallow waters exponentially increase the risk. There better be some really juicy targets to whet ones' appetite for suffering.....

[Panic Ensues]

Version 1.1.7 will reduce all ships' acceleration, as well as exposing those values to the Mod Editor.

Speaking of shallow water combat: I did a very stupid thing and couldn't resist attacking an anchored convoy from waters only about 50 feet deep. When a destroyer came after me, I dove to rest on the bottom; he ran aground on my conning tower and got stuck. So there I was, pinned against the sea floor, unable to move, by a destroyer that was also unable to move.

It was a stalemate until his friends started lobbing torpedoes at me, which ended that stalemate real quick...

[tuizentfloot]

Great, and just to be sure: a subs depth is referenced to its keel/ bottom (not sure what the correct term is in english)?

[tuizentfloot]

http://www.hmshood.com/ship/hoodspecs4.htm for some data about acceleration etc

[Panic Ensues]

Originally posted by tuizentfloot:

Great, and just to be sure: a subs depth is referenced to its keel/ bottom (not sure what the correct term is in english)?

Well... yes and no. Technically, the displayed depth refers to the sub's center point, which is at its surfaced waterline, so 0 = surfaced. But the game also tests against that point to determine if you're aground or bottomed, so in that case, it represents your keel.

You'll have to turn off your engineer brain to absorb that. :)

[OleGreyGhost]

That explains why I keep hitting the bottom when I read the depth gauge at 305 to 310 ft.

I expect to be hovering just above the sea floor, when in actuality I will be sitting on it.

Speaking of depth gauge, I'll put this in a separate post.

[gsmith63]

Originally posted by Panic Ensues:

Version 1.1.7 will reduce all ships' acceleration, as well as exposing those values to the Mod Editor.

Great! No steam-powered ships accelerate fast, not even destroyers. Also, as any ship increases speed it creates more drag, which requires even more power to overcome. So a DD would likely (for example) go from 0 to 20 knots in one minute, 20 to 30 in the second minute, and 30 to 35 in the third minute. Extra points if you can simulate that! BTW, none of the DDs in the game had a top speed of greater than around 35 kts IRL.