[MAJOR SPOILERS] Comparing this game to the first one.

[interface]

Honestly, I go back and forth on whether I like this game more or the first game more. I feel like that for everything this game does better, the first game has something else that it does better. I guess in that sense, both games are balanced. One example is that the UI in this game is vastly improved, but that’s to be expected since it came out a few years later. One thing I liked more in the first game is that there are more branching paths. In my opinion, there is more satisfaction in the Somniums if there are branching paths and your choices lead to different endings. There was a little of that in this game, but it was much more reduced. However, I think that the Somniums in this game have more tension and difficulty to them, and I definitely enjoyed them more. One standout example is the masked woman’s, or Bibi’s Somnium. Since we were introduced to a real-time mechanic, her Somnium felt more stressful but also more rewarding when I actually finished it. One thing I liked more about the first game was that we were able to spend a lot of time with Date and Aiba and we got to know them well as characters. In this game, since we have to split attention between two(actually three) protagonists, it feels like we don’t get as much time to get to know them. In the case of Mizuki and Bibi, I didn’t mind that much because we already got to know Mizuki from the first game and Bibi is literally a Mizuki clone, but I think Ryuki ends up being kinda shafted as a character, and I wanted to get more scenes with him and more scenes developing his relationship with Tama. I think that because of the narrative of the game, a lot of development occurs off-screen, which is understandable, but I also kinda wish that we got to see more of it. I definitely felt like Ryuki had more room to grow as a character and there was more opportunity to develop him (such as his last minute love confession to Date, his backstory of his twin’s death, his mental issues even before getting infected with TC-PERGE). However, I do like that a lot of his actions become recontextualized once we realize that not all of them are happening in the past. Also, I wanted to meet Marco(Bibi’s AI-Ball) and hear him talk, even if just once. I kinda understand why some would be frustrated with this game, though, because the way that the information is presented to us is somewhat contrived. The first game felt more like we were investigating with the characters. However, the biggest mystery in this game(why the bodies are found in the past and future) is not even a mystery to the characters in the game, it’s only a mystery to us because of the way the information is presented. It also does seem a little contrived that Bibi and Mizuki wear the exact same clothes. DNA can explain their similar behavior and bike choice, but down to the same clothes felt somewhat contrived. When it comes to the twist at the end of the game, I think that the first game’s twist was easier to understand, especially since they take their time explaining it. In that sense, I was much more confused after playing this game, and it took me longer to completely understand everything. However, I did get more enjoyment from looking back at the second game and piercing together scenes where the time shifts. All in all, I love both this game and the previous game, and I can’t quite decide which one is better.
What do you think?

[OneStrangePerson]

I'm with you on this conflicted emotions when trying to compare both games. Objectively the sequel get better in almost every aspect - story, Somniums, gameplay variety and there is many QoL improvements. At the same time the first game was so aburd, goofy, crazy and lewd and didn't shy about any of this, that I just can't but love her more.
I also I maybe like main antagonist and dynamic between main characters in the first game more than in sequel.

[Longes]

>Objectively the sequel get better in almost every aspect - story
I would really disagree. AI2 heavily, heavily relies on coincidences and outright lying about what's happening. It's ZTD level of "there was another person always off-camera, no one just thought to mention them". Where AI had one fantastical element central to the plot (psyncing/psync machine), AI2 constantly comes up with more and more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to cover up the ever more elaborate situations.

If AI was Uchikoshi's best work, then this one is easily his worst. It's a disaster, both as a mystery and as a piece of fiction in general.

[Domme]

"such as his last minute love confession to Date"
You mean Tama since he literally chose her over Date by betraying him.

[Llyes]

Originally posted by Longes:

>Objectively the sequel get better in almost every aspect - story
I would really disagree. AI2 heavily, heavily relies on coincidences and outright lying about what's happening. It's ZTD level of "there was another person always off-camera, no one just thought to mention them". Where AI had one fantastical element central to the plot (psyncing/psync machine), AI2 constantly comes up with more and more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to cover up the ever more elaborate situations.

If AI was Uchikoshi's best work, then this one is easily his worst. It's a disaster, both as a mystery and as a piece of fiction in general.

I don't know why so many people view the game this way, every single detail throughout the game is consistent with the true timeline. The only reason it takes so long to be apparent is because Ryuki is experiencing the same timeline we are due to the plan taking advantage of his condition. Once you get to Mizuki's side it becomes blindingly obvious that something is wrong with the order of events, and the only reason that it isn't easy to work out where the timelines overlap is because Aiba has been corrupted to not show Bibi's true appearance.

Saying that the game is lying about the timeline is like saying that the first game was lying about who various people actually are since you're talking to Saito through half the game without knowing it.

What I do agree with is that the reveal of the actual timeline is absolute trash. Having a matter of fact discussion with some otherworldly entity that you know nothing about is not an interesting way to do the reveal. I don't see any reason why the reveal shouldn't have come from Tokiko, like most of the rest of the explanations of how the game actually works did.

[Longes]

Originally posted by Llyes:

Saying that the game is lying about the timeline is like saying that the first game was lying about who various people actually are since you're talking to Saito through half the game without knowing it.

No, it's absolutely nothing like that. When you are talking to Saito in the first game without realizing it - Date is also not realizing it. Because it's a secret. Because Saito is a body-hopper and you are talking to people Date wouldn't have enough information to suspect. In the second game, the mystery only exists for the player. The order of events is blindingly obvious to every character in the game because they are set bloody six years apart. The fact that Mizuki is a completely different person is obvious and known to every character who interacts with her, and it's just the game lying to you, the player. And "Aiba has been corrupted" is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, since Aiba has never been the POV character. The game uses a third-person camera all the time.

It's the same plot twist as Never17, done infinitely worse because at least in Never17 it was a deliberate design while here it happens completely by accident.
It's also the same plot twist as 999, but at least in 999 "actually the bottom screen was always past-June POV" has zero impact on anything and changes nothing about the story.

[Llyes]

Ryuki experienced the same timeline we did as I already said, the entire point of the game was that the plan relied upon taking advantage of his condition to twist the timeline, and then use the reverse sync at the start of the game to continue the process with Aiba. The viewpoint character is us seeing events through Tama and Aiba. If you translate Ryuki's garbled dialogue you get a breakdown of the plan using him to push the simulation to its very limits.

Aiba was in fact the viewpoint character of the first game, it's how information was transmitted between iterations of the simulation and written into Date's mind, Date even comments on it, and Aiba acknowledges she's in a simulation in her bio.

I'm not saying that all of this means you have to like the game, but what you are saying is strictly false. You just dislike the twist and that is all too understandable, it was delivered painfully badly.

[Longes]

What are you talking about? The focal character of the first game is really obviously Date. You continue to play as Date and see events around Date even when Date doesn't have Aiba. The game's entire ending has Aiba with Saito, and you continue to play and see events that Date sees, not Aiba. Not that he's a POV character because the game is not first-person - there is liberal use of third-person camera showing events characters don't see.

[Llyes]

The wadjet system sees way more than it tells us, it could be the actual viewpoint character quite easily.

The AI balls are constantly lying to the characters, Aiba "runs out of battery" in the first game before you go into the warehouse, Aiba doesn't tell you that Gen is Date half the time in this game, the SAT know where you are during the chase because they're just following Aiba and that iteration of the simulation has run it's course and is no longer useful. Tama "doesn't notice" Tearer in studio Dvaita when Amame is being threatened. The list goes on.

The AIs are always a step ahead of the detectives on the investigations and just prod them into giving them the answers they want to hear. They know the solution to every puzzle and just wait around for you to catch up.

Not to mention that boss instructing the AI balls to lie to you is extremely likely. Boss is fully in control of the two abrupt ends on Mizuki's side as she has Bibi provide Mizuki with the wink sink of Kizuna and her dad's conversation, and then removes the box containing TC-Perge from Cathedral 2 before you get there. In the other ending Boss is the one calling SAT on Date and Mizuki.

Then there's the recovery of Aiba. In the first game Aiba was recovered from "random cloud distribution" meaning that there is no clear limit to the reach of the wadjet system. In this game Aiba was supposed to be disconnected from the network during the Explosion ending, but somehow her memories are eventually restored, making it unlikely that there were ever network troubles in the first place.

It was this way in both games, and Uchikoshi better have some kind of explanation for all of this or it's going to be way worse than ZTD, complexly motivated snails won't have anything the number of discarded plot threads if we never learn what is up with Boss and the Wadjet system.

[ultimatecalibur]

Originally posted by Llyes:

It was this way in both games, and Uchikoshi better have some kind of explanation for all of this or it's going to be way worse than ZTD, complexly motivated snails won't have anything the number of discarded plot threads if we never learn what is up with Boss and the Wadjet system.

It is a bit easy to not realize but the explanation is very meta. AI:NI is a video game (i.e. a simulated reality) with several NPCs (Tokiko, Chikara and Uru) that believe themselves self aware characters in a simulation. Pretty much every incongruity is due to the fact that this game is a visual novel about NPCs trying to escape from a simulation and that the mystery is built around the player's meta-knowledge and expectations for the game. All the weirdness is in setting handwaving to justify the story.

[Llyes]

Originally posted by ultimatecalibur:

It is a bit easy to not realize but the explanation is very meta. AI:NI is a video game (i.e. a simulated reality) with several NPCs (Tokiko, Chikara and Uru) that believe themselves self aware characters in a simulation. Pretty much every incongruity is due to the fact that this game is a visual novel about NPCs trying to escape from a simulation and that the mystery is built around the player's meta-knowledge and expectations for the game. All the weirdness is in setting handwaving to justify the story.

Uh, what point are you even trying to make? It's a story about Tokiko manipulating events so that she can escape the simulations yes, but that doesn't make these details any less weird. It all points to ABIS and the Wadjet system directly cooperating with Tokiko to accomplish the nil ending. What do you even mean by handwaving and justification? The game is trying to be meta, it even directly talks to you throughout, it isn't the fact that the game is a game that makes it meta, it's the fact that the story is intrinsically meta (now there's an easy sentence to parse).

[toughnails]

Originally posted by Llyes:

It's a story about Tokiko manipulating events so that she can escape the simulation

Blows my mind that some people are taking a gag ending so seriously. It's like thinking that Silent Hill 2 was about an especially intelligent Shiba Inu dog pushing some buttons in a secret control room.

Anyhow, Uchikoshi always writes the twist/ending first, then thinks of a way to get there. That's why all of his stories feel so forced, contrived and unrealistic. You either love this kind of storytelling or you don't. Yes, Bibi exists only to fool the player, that's the whole point. There's not much else to discuss here.

[Llyes]

Originally posted by toughnails:

Blows my mind that some people are taking a gag ending so seriously. It's like thinking that Silent Hill 2 was about an especially intelligent Shiba Inu dog pushing some buttons in a secret control room.

Anyhow, Uchikoshi always writes the twist/ending first, then thinks of a way to get there. That's why all of his stories feel so forced, contrived and unrealistic. You either love this kind of storytelling or you don't. Yes, Bibi exists only to fool the player, that's the whole point. There's not much else to discuss here.

How on earth can you conclude that it's a gag ending when the entire point of the game was to set it up?

Please explain why: The timeline was twisted, Tokiko was always talking to the player, Ryuki was spouting corrupted dialogue about the nil ending, why anything at all in the game even happens

The tc-perge wasnt' even intended to cause Moksha in the first place, the only times we see it used are:

To stop Ryuki from recognizing Amame
To make the mob doctor tell Mizuki where the rehearsal would be
To make a bunch of people fight on through their wounds

The purpose of tc-perge was the same as the videos. The videos exploited Ryuki's condition to confuse him about the order of events. The tc-perge creates a similiar condition in others and from there rewrites their code so that they act in specific ways.

I don't know why people are so set on misunderstanding this game, both the nil-ending and the timeline twist are always being misrepresented for no reason.

[ultimatecalibur]

Originally posted by toughnails:

Originally posted by Llyes:

It's a story about Tokiko manipulating events so that she can escape the simulation

Blows my mind that some people are taking a gag ending so seriously. It's like thinking that Silent Hill 2 was about an especially intelligent Shiba Inu dog pushing some buttons in a secret control room.

In this case it is not a gag ending but a key factor in understanding 3 major characters motivations that are directly discussed in the main storyline. Tokiko, Chikara and Uru all believe themselves to be trapped in a simulated world and all react differently to this "knowledge." Chikara believes that since it is a simulation nothing he does really maters so he can act as evilly as he wants to with no moral repercussions, Tokiko wishes to reach enlightenment/be free of the simulation so seeks to create a situation that would prove and require the interaction from someone outside the simulation to occur, and Uru believes that the world is a simulation and that the best way to help Tokiko reach enlightenment is to cause the simulation to bug out by causing people to act in random unintuitive ways.

The Simulation Hypothesis was the pseudo-scientific focus of this game like dream analysis/interaction was AI's pseudo-science focus. The game wouldn't have happened without it unlike SH2's dog ending.