For Greatsword: Attack or Affinity?

[Xenos]

Look, I don't really care about meta stuff or min/maxing, but its been on my mind and its bothering me. When using Greatsword, specifically Surge Slash, Adamant Charge and Rage Slash, if you can't achieve 100% affinity, is it better to try and still get a high affinity, or just stack attack boosting options like Attack Boost and Resentment?

It's just been bothering me since I tried two builds, one with Attack Boost 7 and the other with 45% base affinity and Weakness Exploit 3, and it seemed like AB7 was honestly doing better overall even when hitting weak points only.

[tyrone shoelaces]

defense boost 7

for real. just think about it.

[Xenos]

Originally posted by tyrone shoelaces:

defense boost 7

for real. just think about it.

I don't get it

[CHAO$$$]

consider this:
attack is a flat value
affinity is a multiplier to attack

the "effective increase in attack" you get from affinity is calculated as
current attack * (0.25 +0.05*crit boost skill level) *affinity

*with affinity as decimal value e.g. 10% affinity = 0.1

so if you have to choose between 2 increases just compare the values for attack to the "effective increase in attack" through affinity.

In some situations like for weakness exploit you obviously also have to consider other factors but yea.

[DaBa]

Originally posted by Xenos:

Look, I don't really care about meta stuff or min/maxing, but its been on my mind and its bothering me. When using Greatsword, specifically Surge Slash, Adamant Charge and Rage Slash, if you can't achieve 100% affinity, is it better to try and still get a high affinity, or just stack attack boosting options like Attack Boost and Resentment?

It's just been bothering me since I tried two builds, one with Attack Boost 7 and the other with 45% base affinity and Weakness Exploit 3, and it seemed like AB7 was honestly doing better overall even when hitting weak points only.

It's literally all just math. See if you can get more damage out of stacking crits + crit boost, or if you can get more out of pure raw damage.

All I can say is: crits + crit boost was already the way to squeeze the most damage out of weapons that rely on normal attacks that can crit, so I imagine it only got even better since all the weapons have higher raw, so the skills that just add a flat amount of attack are less effective than a percentage incrase. Also, you should be able to get attack boost 7 and max crit with max crit boost easily anyway in Sunbreak, no need to pick. Or even better, use dereliction which is pretty busted.

[cklambo]

Why not both

[Seamus]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

consider this:
attack is a flat value
affinity is a multiplier to attack

the "effective increase in attack" you get from affinity is calculated as
current attack * (0.25 +0.05*crit boost skill level) *affinity

*with affinity as decimal value e.g. 10% affinity = 0.1

so if you have to choose between 2 increases just compare the values for attack to the "effective increase in attack" through affinity.

In some situations like for weakness exploit you obviously also have to consider other factors but yea.

Attack isn't really a flat value anymore. It's a percentage bonus AND a flat value weighting it way higher than it used to be.

[ColonelBaker]

Here's my priority with GS: Weakness Exploit lvl 3, Attack lvl 4, Crit Boost lvl 3. After that I would try and get your affinity up to 50%, since you'll be hitting 100% on weakspots with Weakness Exploit. Then you could focus on more levels of Attack, or Resentment if you're using Rage Slash. Agitator is good too.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

consider this:
attack is a flat value
affinity is a multiplier to attack

the "effective increase in attack" you get from affinity is calculated as
current attack * (0.25 +0.05*crit boost skill level) *affinity

*with affinity as decimal value e.g. 10% affinity = 0.1

so if you have to choose between 2 increases just compare the values for attack to the "effective increase in attack" through affinity.

In some situations like for weakness exploit you obviously also have to consider other factors but yea.

Attack isn't really a flat value anymore. It's a percentage bonus AND a flat value weighting it way higher than it used to be.

No, you can consider it a flat value as a basepoint for all multiplicative bonuses afterwards which is just a simplifaction i used to easily be able to access the calculation.
All other modifiers that affect attack in the end will scale equally since it doesnt matter in which order you do multiplication. I.e. for simply estimating "which is better attack or affinity" everything else besides attack and affinity doesnt matter since the % based increase in damage scales relatively.

Also if you have to make an exceptionally vague comment like that maybe you could elaborate how exactly attack is not a flat value for this calculation (and if youre gonna tell me that its not because the attack skill has a multiplicative bonus attached at higher skill levels im gonna laugh at you for not understanding basic math).

In all seriousness - do feel free to point out a good source if the damage calculation in rise has changed to a degree where your statement makes sense. Im not aware that it did.

[Dondu]

ATTACK + crit draw + charge = old school strat, still works

[Seamus]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

No, you can consider it a flat value as a basepoint for all multiplicative bonuses afterwards which is just a simplifaction i used to easily be able to access the calculation.
All other modifiers that affect attack in the end will scale equally since it doesnt matter in which order you do multiplication. I.e. for simply estimating "which is better attack or affinity" everything else besides attack and affinity doesnt matter since the % based increase in damage scales relatively.

Also if you have to make an exceptionally vague comment like that maybe you could elaborate how exactly attack is not a flat value for this calculation (and if youre gonna tell me that its not because the attack skill has a multiplicative bonus attached at higher skill levels im gonna laugh at you for not understanding basic math).

In all seriousness - do feel free to point out a good source if the damage calculation in rise has changed to a degree where your statement makes sense. Im not aware that it did.

Varies based on weapon.

Take LBG for example. Attack outweighs crit when using elements because of the weird way element shots scale in rise and the fact that crit element is kinda trash.

That 10% attack bonus works harder than you seem to think it does.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

No, you can consider it a flat value as a basepoint for all multiplicative bonuses afterwards which is just a simplifaction i used to easily be able to access the calculation.
All other modifiers that affect attack in the end will scale equally since it doesnt matter in which order you do multiplication. I.e. for simply estimating "which is better attack or affinity" everything else besides attack and affinity doesnt matter since the % based increase in damage scales relatively.

Also if you have to make an exceptionally vague comment like that maybe you could elaborate how exactly attack is not a flat value for this calculation (and if youre gonna tell me that its not because the attack skill has a multiplicative bonus attached at higher skill levels im gonna laugh at you for not understanding basic math).

In all seriousness - do feel free to point out a good source if the damage calculation in rise has changed to a degree where your statement makes sense. Im not aware that it did.

Varies based on weapon.

Take LBG for example. Attack outweighs crit when using elements because of the weird way element shots scale in rise and the fact that crit element is kinda trash.

That 10% attack bonus works harder than you seem to think it does.

I think youre bad at math tbh. And dont start bringing element into this because thats completely unrelated.

Attack is a flat value. It doesnt matter if you add a flat +10 or 10% of 100 base attack - in both cases you just add flat values.

Affinity, sharpness, hitzones on the other hand are all modifiers. They mean nothing unless they are put in context of attack.

Value << -- >> Modifier

I honestly dont know how i could possibly make this more simple to understand. My bad.

PS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo_K7JLZxQ

[Seamus]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

I think youre bad at math tbh. And dont start bringing element into this because thats completely unrelated.

Attack is a flat value. It doesnt matter if you add a flat +10 or 10% of 100 base attack - in both cases you just add flat values.

Affinity, sharpness, hitzones on the other hand are all modifiers. They mean nothing unless they are put in context of attack.

Value << -- >> Modifier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z88-aGeG-0I

I mentioned element because it's relevant to the attack skill when bowguns are involved.

It's fine if you don't know the math there. It's weird anyway.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

I think youre bad at math tbh. And dont start bringing element into this because thats completely unrelated.

Attack is a flat value. It doesnt matter if you add a flat +10 or 10% of 100 base attack - in both cases you just add flat values.

Affinity, sharpness, hitzones on the other hand are all modifiers. They mean nothing unless they are put in context of attack.

Value << -- >> Modifier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z88-aGeG-0I

I mentioned element because it's relevant to the attack skill when bowguns are involved.

It's fine if you don't know the math there. It's weird anyway.

Have you read the title?

[Seamus]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Originally posted by Seamus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z88-aGeG-0I

I mentioned element because it's relevant to the attack skill when bowguns are involved.

It's fine if you don't know the math there. It's weird anyway.

Have you read the title?

I have yes.

That doesn't change the fact that changing attack from giving 5% crit to giving 10% raw changed the weighting of the skill.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Have you read the title?

I have yes.

That doesn't change the fact that changing attack from giving 5% crit to giving 10% raw changed the weighting of the skill.

Im looking for the red emoji that perpetually bangs his head against a wall but i cant find it.

Anyway - gotta get to work hf gl!