What are the odds that the switch skills make it to wilds?

[kl250d]

Even if they aren't named switch skills anymore. I just dont know enough of monster hunters history to know if they normally bring in gimmicks and then abandon them for the next game.

I just like things like rage slash and guard tackle for the GS and think it'd be cool if those sorts of options were kept for the next one

[Popcorn]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Originally posted by Popcorn:

Yeah, and which one actually gave us the option to turn it off?
Oh, right, Rise did, silly me.
In World, your ONLY choices are: mod or "deal with it"

And are you seriously unable to read as well?
I said the two are similar to the unnaturalness of the monster state.
Oh, wait, as always, you've been unable to comprehend anything people have been saying from the beginning anyways.

Rise DID NOT GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO TURN OFF THE EFFECT, NO.

You can turn off the actual ACT of riding or choose NOT to ride, just like you can NOT clutch claw - but the ANIMATION, the REACTION to the threshhold being met is there EITHER WAY.

But on TOP of this because of wyvernriding and wirebugs, monster AI in rise has been made drastically less interesting in terms of multi-monster interaction in zones. Whereas CC it's just "You lose some damage if you don't do it."

Yeah, I meant turning off the "act of wyvern-riding", not the state itself.

These two are equal in the terms I was talking about above: unnatural occurrences that throws everything off.

I could give less of a damn about monster interactions when most people ive seen on the World forums always whine about monsters roaring at one another for several minutes.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Popcorn:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Rise DID NOT GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO TURN OFF THE EFFECT, NO.

You can turn off the actual ACT of riding or choose NOT to ride, just like you can NOT clutch claw - but the ANIMATION, the REACTION to the threshhold being met is there EITHER WAY.

But on TOP of this because of wyvernriding and wirebugs, monster AI in rise has been made drastically less interesting in terms of multi-monster interaction in zones. Whereas CC it's just "You lose some damage if you don't do it."

Yeah, I meant turning off the "act of wyvern-riding", not the state itself.

These two are equal in the terms I was talking about above: unnatural occurrences that throws everything off.

I could give less of a damn about monster interactions when most people ive seen on the World forums always whine about monsters roaring at one another for several minutes.

I mean that's fine if you don't care but this is the reality of the situation we currently find ourselves in. A bunch of systems were messed with due to wirebugs and wyvern riding. In comparison CC and clagger has effected far less and is therefor easier to ignore. That's the entire point I'm making. But again, they're both still flawed systems.

Edit: Small breakdown-

CC:
Recoil Anim
Clagger
Weakness exploit Nerf
Tenderizing
Shaver deco
Free pods
Specific CC attacks on certain weps
And I'll even add the beetles you use to traverse in here

Wirebugs/silkbinds:
Traversal
Silkbind attacks adding counters, hyper armor, i-frames, etc
Wirefall
Wiredash
Wyvern riding
Wyvern riding recoil anim
Multi-monster AI encounters
Increased rarity of turfwars (again due to silk buildup often causing instant mounts)
Great Wirebugs
Amatsu's gimmick
Combo escape
Pin escape
Mag's gimmick (yes you can just roll it as well, but you get an entire free knockdown for wirebugging it ONE time.)

There's more, too. The meta was completely changed due to wirebugs. Wirebug whisperer is a sought-after skill, for example, because most of your huge amounts of damage on about 1/2 the weapons are silkbind attacks.

One of these is far less intrusive then the other, but they BOTH have issues. It's fine for people to criticize BOTH, but I really hate the argument of "just ignore wirebugs" when they're arguably more intrinsic in regards to survivability, movement AND damage then CC is in a game with monsters designed around having these extra options.

[Slavbringer57]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP's idea, as a gunlance main (switch axe being a close second) that hasn't even finished Rise or bought Sunbreak (3 switch skills unlocked for those wondering), switch skills are great.
Guard Reload changes a fairly core part of my moveset, it's a simple change completely flipping how I use what'd otherwise be Quick Reload.
That's ignoring the fact it reloads my Wyrmstake too.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Slavbringer57:

I'm inclined to agree with the OP's idea, as a gunlance main (switch axe being a close second) that hasn't even finished Rise or bought Sunbreak (3 switch skills unlocked for those wondering), switch skills are great.
Guard Reload changes a fairly core part of my moveset, it's a simple change completely flipping how I use what'd otherwise be Quick Reload.
That's ignoring the fact it reloads my Wyrmstake too.

Gunlance really did get a huge boost here in rise, big fan of the changes as much as I hate wirebugs - but I'll be real they really need to just scale it's shelling with raw like they did in frontier.

[Slavbringer57]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Originally posted by Slavbringer57:

I'm inclined to agree with the OP's idea, as a gunlance main (switch axe being a close second) that hasn't even finished Rise or bought Sunbreak (3 switch skills unlocked for those wondering), switch skills are great.
Guard Reload changes a fairly core part of my moveset, it's a simple change completely flipping how I use what'd otherwise be Quick Reload.
That's ignoring the fact it reloads my Wyrmstake too.

Gunlance really did get a huge boost here in rise, big fan of the changes as much as I hate wirebugs - but I'll be real they really need to just scale it's shelling with raw like they did in frontier.

Honestly I will be perfectly fine with Wirebugs and Silkbinds not being present, even though I do have that first Silkbind switch skill for both Gunlace and Switch Axe, I don't consider them anywhere near as gamechanging for my playstyle.
They're neat to have but feel less unique because the game is built around you having them anyway.
Do I thoroughly enjoy parrying a monster attack, recovering sharpness and getting a free stake off? Yes.
But is it as much of a difference as switching out core moves, such as Quick into Guard Reload, or Charged Shelling (which I never use anyway) into insane horizontal mobility? Nowhere close. Switch axe is the same deal imo.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Slavbringer57:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Gunlance really did get a huge boost here in rise, big fan of the changes as much as I hate wirebugs - but I'll be real they really need to just scale it's shelling with raw like they did in frontier.

Honestly I will be perfectly fine with Wirebugs and Silkbinds not being present, even though I do have that first Silkbind switch skill for both Gunlace and Switch Axe, I don't consider them anywhere near as gamechanging for my playstyle.
They're neat to have but feel less unique because the game is built around you having them anyway.
Do I thoroughly enjoy parrying a monster attack, recovering sharpness and getting a free stake off? Yes.
But is it as much of a difference as switching out core moves, such as Quick into Guard Reload, or Charged Shelling (which I never use anyway) into insane horizontal mobility? Nowhere close. Switch axe is the same deal imo.

I'm more talking about gunlance damage in general being hard to make "good" because you constantly have to have your buffs up to really do good damage with it.

Agree on the actual moveset changes, those are great.

The weapon as a whole is in need of either new skills to buff shelling or a revamp in terms of how it's damage is calculated. It doesn't need to be CRAZY buffed, but it needs a bit of a bump to keep up with other weapons.

[Slavbringer57]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Originally posted by Slavbringer57:

Honestly I will be perfectly fine with Wirebugs and Silkbinds not being present, even though I do have that first Silkbind switch skill for both Gunlace and Switch Axe, I don't consider them anywhere near as gamechanging for my playstyle.
They're neat to have but feel less unique because the game is built around you having them anyway.
Do I thoroughly enjoy parrying a monster attack, recovering sharpness and getting a free stake off? Yes.
But is it as much of a difference as switching out core moves, such as Quick into Guard Reload, or Charged Shelling (which I never use anyway) into insane horizontal mobility? Nowhere close. Switch axe is the same deal imo.

I'm more talking about gunlance damage in general being hard to make "good" because you constantly have to have your buffs up to really do good damage with it.

Agree on the actual moveset changes, those are great.

The weapon as a whole is in need of either new skills to buff shelling or a revamp in terms of how it's damage is calculated. It doesn't need to be CRAZY buffed, but it needs a bit of a bump to keep up with other weapons.

That's fair, just thought I'd add some specifics on how I see the whole silkbinds vs switch skills debacle that played out in earlier posts
Unfortunately with World being my first game and not really having looked into the damage calcs, I'm lowkey clueless in this department.
One thing I think I can add is that I do consider the fact shelling ignores hard points as something in favour of its damage. Albeit the cost is no weakpoint bonus damage either.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Slavbringer57:

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

I'm more talking about gunlance damage in general being hard to make "good" because you constantly have to have your buffs up to really do good damage with it.

Agree on the actual moveset changes, those are great.

The weapon as a whole is in need of either new skills to buff shelling or a revamp in terms of how it's damage is calculated. It doesn't need to be CRAZY buffed, but it needs a bit of a bump to keep up with other weapons.

That's fair, just thought I'd add some specifics on how I see the whole silkbinds vs switch skills debacle that played out in earlier posts
Unfortunately with World being my first game and not really having looked into the damage calcs, I'm lowkey clueless in this department.
One thing I think I can add is that I do consider the fact shelling ignores hard points as something in favour of its damage. Albeit the cost is no weakpoint bonus damage either.

Yup! The problem is compared to other damage shelling really doesn't get buffed from much. You only have a few skills that actually do anything with it, and that's been the case for I believe every game outside of frontier where they scaled the damage with your raw value. A lot of stuff effects blunt/slash damage, but shelling is really neglected.

That being said it's still a great weapon and I'm really excited to see what wilds does. My big concern every time there's a generational leap is they'll pull a tri and remove 1/2 the weapons again LMAO

Granted I'd love to see underwater return revamped. I'd actually rather see underwater return then switch skills.

[Dagný]

Originally posted by Popcorn:

Originally posted by Dagný:

Yes, ignore it.

You started it way before that, there was no reason for you to bring clagger into the conversation or say forced to watch the animation. But you did it anyway out of nowhere for god knows what reason.

Again, if you can read with those eyes, you would understand what I was getting at: one you can completely ignore, the other is shoved right into your face
To begin with, if we had alternate moves for the basics, not the Silkbind Moves, for the nth time I've said this, you can literally ignore them all, just like you have been with all the other optional weapons that you've been ignoring.

Why can't you get it through your thick skull that "alternate moves" =/= "special moves with special mechanics"?

What I understand is that YOU decided to shift the direction of the main argument while responding a question that was directed at ME (not you) for no reason and ignoring a similar problem that exists in Rise.

And now you want to go back to multiple moves, it's really not worth answering.

[Popcorn]

Originally posted by Dagný:

Originally posted by Popcorn:

Again, if you can read with those eyes, you would understand what I was getting at: one you can completely ignore, the other is shoved right into your face
To begin with, if we had alternate moves for the basics, not the Silkbind Moves, for the nth time I've said this, you can literally ignore them all, just like you have been with all the other optional weapons that you've been ignoring.

Why can't you get it through your thick skull that "alternate moves" =/= "special moves with special mechanics"?

What I understand is that YOU decided to shift the direction of the main argument while responding a question that was directed at ME (not you) for no reason and ignoring a similar problem that exists in Rise.

And now you want to go back to multiple moves, it's really not worth answering.

Originally posted by Popcorn:

Originally posted by Tenebris:

We did it boys, he's officially out of arguments and using ad hominem.

Not like like he had any arguments in the first place. Which, by the way, STILL has not given any sort of argument for why versatility and customisation are bad.

As a side note, if you don't like those features you could just... Not use them???

Especially if they're interchangeable moves.
Its like saying "I don't like clutch claw" and still using it.
Clagger, I hate, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ we need a mod to remove it.
Thank goodness Rise, or rather, Sunbreak, gave us the option whether to Wyvern Ride as well.
Hopefully, they do this in future MH games if they ever bring something similar to these two

This is what I said.
Interchangeable moves are less tedious/distracting/intrusive compared to the forced visuals of the fights.

My original debacle was that being able to change moves would be nice, yours was always talking about "unlocking special moves" or "special mechanics".

If they're interchangeable, you don't have to use any of the other moves if you don't want to.
They're not special moves like Silkbind Moves, that is flashy.

We weren't even on the same page from the beginning.

[Popcorn]

Originally posted by Flip_Light:

Originally posted by Popcorn:

Yeah, I meant turning off the "act of wyvern-riding", not the state itself.

These two are equal in the terms I was talking about above: unnatural occurrences that throws everything off.

I could give less of a damn about monster interactions when most people ive seen on the World forums always whine about monsters roaring at one another for several minutes.

I mean that's fine if you don't care but this is the reality of the situation we currently find ourselves in. A bunch of systems were messed with due to wirebugs and wyvern riding. In comparison CC and clagger has effected far less and is therefor easier to ignore. That's the entire point I'm making. But again, they're both still flawed systems.

Edit: Small breakdown-

CC:
Recoil Anim
Clagger
Weakness exploit Nerf
Tenderizing
Shaver deco
Free pods
Specific CC attacks on certain weps
And I'll even add the beetles you use to traverse in here

Wirebugs/silkbinds:
Traversal
Silkbind attacks adding counters, hyper armor, i-frames, etc
Wirefall
Wiredash
Wyvern riding
Wyvern riding recoil anim
Multi-monster AI encounters
Increased rarity of turfwars (again due to silk buildup often causing instant mounts)
Great Wirebugs
Amatsu's gimmick
Combo escape
Pin escape
Mag's gimmick (yes you can just roll it as well, but you get an entire free knockdown for wirebugging it ONE time.)

There's more, too. The meta was completely changed due to wirebugs. Wirebug whisperer is a sought-after skill, for example, because most of your huge amounts of damage on about 1/2 the weapons are silkbind attacks.

One of these is far less intrusive then the other, but they BOTH have issues. It's fine for people to criticize BOTH, but I really hate the argument of "just ignore wirebugs" when they're arguably more intrinsic in regards to survivability, movement AND damage then CC is in a game with monsters designed around having these extra options.

Damn bruh, transversing through the environment is that intrusive huh...
So much, you forgot the wall slams and creating exploits that your attacks would normally bounce off of...

Also, that's where you're getting your heads stuck up your asses, "muh meta".
Bruh, just play the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game.

[Dagný]

Originally posted by Popcorn:

This is what I said.

Yep, that is you doing exactly what I said you did. Unfortunately you mentioning FORCED clagger out of nowhere backfired hard.

[Popcorn]

Originally posted by Dagný:

Originally posted by Popcorn:

This is what I said.

Yep, that is you doing exactly what I said you did. Unfortunately you mentioning FORCED clagger out of nowhere backfired hard.

Is it not forced when the monster unnaturally reels back and says "CLAW ME NOW"?
I'm not talking about using the claw, just the animation.
Still unnatural unless you mod it out

I mentioned it to see if you can see that OPTIONAL moves, like the Switch Skills, NOT the Silkbind Moves, is NOT forced and unnatural, which, i can see your blind to not see it

[sun6000]

Honestly i can easily see switch skills or something like it being a mainstay, afterall mounting after it was introduced in 4 seemed like a gimmick but they kept it for the rest of the series! And we already kinda got a taste that they wanted to play around with custom movesets with the hunter arts and styles in gen. Even if not in world with worlds other focuses.

So yeah, i can see switch skills or something similar coming back with a (random bs number in my head) 80% chance!

[Rahk]

Originally posted by Dagný:

Originally posted by Rahk:

The issue people have with rise generally is wirebugs but Switch skills are such a good idea I find it hard for them not to stay. Modifying your weapons moveset is such a neat concept that can be approached in so many ways it should absolutely be expanded upon.

One is intrinsically linked to the other. Wirebugs are nothing but a cooldown system which is everything but neat. It's incredibly boring and overused. How do you do that without some sort of cooldown?

There are plenty of switch skills that are entirely unrelated to wirebugs and those are great