I don't get the praise for primordial malzeno that I am seeing

[ZexxCrine]

I hope i'm just missing something but this fight is awful. conceptually I like the idea of the fight and the monster, but man its barely even a fight. its more like an interactive movie. he does some super coreagraphed like ultra backflip wingstab sheild rush bull and don't get me wrong it looks great but he just never stops. the only real openings in the fight are just the ones that the devs literally baked in because they know its bad. his attacks have massive blindspots and safe spots but it doesn't matter. like "good job you found the blindspot in his attacks now just avoid the next one" its not even hard. then he powers up and it starts to almost aprach a good fight but I think thats because of lazy design. they just copy pasted a bunch of normal malzeno attacks and forgot to make them ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. if they would leave normal malzeno open then they leave primordial open. UNTIL you get punished for hitting him by knocking him out of his powerup state where he actually pauses between attacks. and then if you get his health down low enough he enters a risen-like mode where there is no consistancy if he pauses after attacks or not. sometimes he does and sometimes he just goes into more attacks, don't worry tho because the OC do not steal who is fighting the power of the 9 tailed beast within is fighting to try and stay the main character and while he does that you can hit him.

run around till he powers up or the devs throw you a bone boring BORING fight. its ok the because the devs knew he was garbage so they gave him kirin health. man is built like toilet paper and not the name brand kind, no this is some bargain bin, on sale, you can see your fingers through it, public bathroom toilet paper.

its a horrible fight because your not really intended to interact with it. just run around until his hardcoded main character fighting the demon inside moment lets you comfortably commit to an attack and then your done in 10 minutes or less. its horrible.

[Garble]

I'm having fun.

[Dark.Chaoz.Bringer]

引用自 Garble Master：

I'm having fun.

Same.

[JPM岩]

引用自 Dark.Chaoz.Bringer：

I just wanted to come back and chime in that normal Malz was actually somewhat "excused" for having a teleport ability, because everyone assumed he was just moving fast into positions that made sense according to his animations vs. actually teleporting. While we now know for SURE that normal Malz is indeed teleporting, we can still see past it due to his movements being reasonable and/or in line with his animations.

On the other hand, we have New Malz where this mofo is quite literally teleporting around not only entire arenas but even outside of them (there's quite a few clips floating around; don't take my word for it) in the most insane manner WHILE going on a crack induced frenzy. There's no rhyme or reason to his movements like normal Malz. New Malz is programmed to hone in on whoever is likely to be killed REGARDLESS of where they are.
There's a fine line between being a "challenge" and being objectively broken, which for whatever reason many of you openly admit yet willfully conflate. Yes - I admit that the development process CAN and HAS birthed "happy accidents". However, this design, to the best of our knowledge, was purely intentional.

With all of this in mind, I just want to ask where do we draw the line?......

Actually, He really doesnt teleport as much as PriMal, he only does the super short burst teleport.

[Grima The Fell Dragon]

I agree OP. Look I'm all for hard fights, but hard should be: you have to break a part or hit it with it's weakness, or even it has the original recipe Coke a cola speed but it's temporary or can be cancelled via damage, not 90% of the fight is dodge. It has barely any moments to hit it even as a projectile user especially when it starts teleporting like a Tracer main on McDonald's wifi. I might have to go lance or gunlance for the first time just to not die to the dodge issues.

That and the fact that he can hit you on the ground is some nonsense. Frontier monsters were fast but you as the hunter had stuff like long greatsword or even magnet spike to counter. Plus the camera actually worked with the monster, not here where the biggest issue besides his single minded you must die tracking (seriously if they gave him the same thing Behemoth and Safi had given me the red line of doom to know. Even Splatoon for the grillers and glowfish make it easy to know when you're being targeted.), absurd hitboxes, way too limited openings (when he does his teleport kaboom it should knock him out of super form or severely stun him. Velkhana does her super but there's a cool down before her next super same for everyone including Amatsu), is that I've died more times to him going off camera and ending up dodging the wrong way more often than not.

Amatsu can be challenging but he has a pattern and his instakill can't screw you over because you ran out of dodges.

Tl;DR: If you make a super fast and hard monster give him something as a weakness like flash bomb in his final super should knock him out of it back to normal, or something other than being on the receiving end of an MVC 3 combo.

[Dark.Chaoz.Bringer]

引用自 JPM岩：

引用自 Dark.Chaoz.Bringer：

I just wanted to come back and chime in that normal Malz was actually somewhat "excused" for having a teleport ability, because everyone assumed he was just moving fast into positions that made sense according to his animations vs. actually teleporting. While we now know for SURE that normal Malz is indeed teleporting, we can still see past it due to his movements being reasonable and/or in line with his animations.

On the other hand, we have New Malz where this mofo is quite literally teleporting around not only entire arenas but even outside of them (there's quite a few clips floating around; don't take my word for it) in the most insane manner WHILE going on a crack induced frenzy. There's no rhyme or reason to his movements like normal Malz. New Malz is programmed to hone in on whoever is likely to be killed REGARDLESS of where they are.
There's a fine line between being a "challenge" and being objectively broken, which for whatever reason many of you openly admit yet willfully conflate. Yes - I admit that the development process CAN and HAS birthed "happy accidents". However, this design, to the best of our knowledge, was purely intentional.

With all of this in mind, I just want to ask where do we draw the line?......

Actually, He really doesnt teleport as much as PriMal, he only does the super short burst teleport.

Not sure if there's a language barrier involved here, but that's what I'm saying....Normal Malz is reasonable. New Malz is using Instant Transmission, which is bs of course.

[Dark.Chaoz.Bringer]

引用自 Han Daimond：

Reported.

How do you go from being the first to start cursing me out to also being the first to be a tattle-tale?......

Child go to bed. I'm not entertaining this foolishness further.

[JPM岩]

引用自 Dark.Chaoz.Bringer：

引用自 JPM岩：

Actually, He really doesnt teleport as much as PriMal, he only does the super short burst teleport.

Not sure if there's a language barrier involved here, but that's what I'm saying....Normal Malz is reasonable. New Malz is using Instant Transmission, which is bs of course.

And it's really not that bad to have a teleporting monster. The problem with PriMal is that there's no breathing period during the combo, a combo that lasts a good 30 seconds.

[ZexxCrine]

引用自 Grima The Fell Dragon：

I agree OP. Look I'm all for hard fights, but hard should be: you have to break a part or hit it with it's weakness, or even it has the original recipe Coke a cola speed but it's temporary or can be cancelled via damage, not 90% of the fight is dodge. It has barely any moments to hit it even as a projectile user especially when it starts teleporting like a Tracer main on McDonald's wifi. I might have to go lance or gunlance for the first time just to not die to the dodge issues.

That and the fact that he can hit you on the ground is some nonsense. Frontier monsters were fast but you as the hunter had stuff like long greatsword or even magnet spike to counter. Plus the camera actually worked with the monster, not here where the biggest issue besides his single minded you must die tracking (seriously if they gave him the same thing Behemoth and Safi had given me the red line of doom to know. Even Splatoon for the grillers and glowfish make it easy to know when you're being targeted.), absurd hitboxes, way too limited openings (when he does his teleport kaboom it should knock him out of super form or severely stun him. Velkhana does her super but there's a cool down before her next super same for everyone including Amatsu), is that I've died more times to him going off camera and ending up dodging the wrong way more often than not.

Amatsu can be challenging but he has a pattern and his instakill can't screw you over because you ran out of dodges.

Tl;DR: If you make a super fast and hard monster give him something as a weakness like flash bomb in his final super should knock him out of it back to normal, or something other than being on the receiving end of an MVC 3 combo.

I appreciate that you think you agree with me, but after reading your post it is clear that you do not agree with me. your grievances are not mine and are not really close to mine at that. as far as I can tell we only agree that we dislike the fight but every reason why is different.

[Lu2]

iam using gunlance , amatsu skill , shield decos and dango shifter max lvl (most op food in game) , you can add more switch skill decos like breath and redirection
no one stand a chance at all
dango shifter max lvl is like cheat but only 70% chance for activation

[Grima The Fell Dragon]

引用自 ZexxCrine：

引用自 Grima The Fell Dragon：

I agree OP. Look I'm all for hard fights, but hard should be: you have to break a part or hit it with it's weakness, or even it has the original recipe Coke a cola speed but it's temporary or can be cancelled via damage, not 90% of the fight is dodge. It has barely any moments to hit it even as a projectile user especially when it starts teleporting like a Tracer main on McDonald's wifi. I might have to go lance or gunlance for the first time just to not die to the dodge issues.

That and the fact that he can hit you on the ground is some nonsense. Frontier monsters were fast but you as the hunter had stuff like long greatsword or even magnet spike to counter. Plus the camera actually worked with the monster, not here where the biggest issue besides his single minded you must die tracking (seriously if they gave him the same thing Behemoth and Safi had given me the red line of doom to know. Even Splatoon for the grillers and glowfish make it easy to know when you're being targeted.), absurd hitboxes, way too limited openings (when he does his teleport kaboom it should knock him out of super form or severely stun him. Velkhana does her super but there's a cool down before her next super same for everyone including Amatsu), is that I've died more times to him going off camera and ending up dodging the wrong way more often than not.

Amatsu can be challenging but he has a pattern and his instakill can't screw you over because you ran out of dodges.

Tl;DR: If you make a super fast and hard monster give him something as a weakness like flash bomb in his final super should knock him out of it back to normal, or something other than being on the receiving end of an MVC 3 combo.

I appreciate that you think you agree with me, but after reading your post it is clear that you do not agree with me. your grievances are not mine and are not really close to mine at that. as far as I can tell we only agree that we dislike the fight but every reason why is different.

???
I thought I made myself clear but apologies. I agree that he's way too fast, has very few openings, and is more of a cinematic anime fight than a monster hunter fight.

I just put possible examples and explained my points because too many times have I complained about how games that do stuff like this don't respect people with disabilities that affect reaction, and have been told I'm whining or to git gud.

I just got off from fighting this abomination four times today to get him to drop his material so I can make all his stuff and then never fight him again. Maybe a bit of the bitterness from dying to questionable hitboxes and him hunting only me down kinda soured me on conversation. Again I apologize if I didn't write my point coherently.

[Laughing kookaburra]

it's hilarious people could always find something to complain

[overmage]

I don't understand the complaints, did him in 6 minutes first try, and also iframed half his long combo. Maybe it's because I'm fresh off special investigations but he feels fine.

[Wingnut Mcmoomoo]

引用自 ZexxCrine：

I hope i'm just missing something but this fight is awful. conceptually I like the idea of the fight and the monster, but man its barely even a fight. its more like an interactive movie. he does some super coreagraphed like ultra backflip wingstab sheild rush bull and don't get me wrong it looks great but he just never stops. the only real openings in the fight are just the ones that the devs literally baked in because they know its bad. his attacks have massive blindspots and safe spots but it doesn't matter. like "good job you found the blindspot in his attacks now just avoid the next one" its not even hard. then he powers up and it starts to almost aprach a good fight but I think thats because of lazy design. they just copy pasted a bunch of normal malzeno attacks and forgot to make them ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. if they would leave normal malzeno open then they leave primordial open. UNTIL you get punished for hitting him by knocking him out of his powerup state where he actually pauses between attacks. and then if you get his health down low enough he enters a risen-like mode where there is no consistancy if he pauses after attacks or not. sometimes he does and sometimes he just goes into more attacks, don't worry tho because the OC do not steal who is fighting the power of the 9 tailed beast within is fighting to try and stay the main character and while he does that you can hit him.

run around till he powers up or the devs throw you a bone boring BORING fight. its ok the because the devs knew he was garbage so they gave him kirin health. man is built like toilet paper and not the name brand kind, no this is some bargain bin, on sale, you can see your fingers through it, public bathroom toilet paper.

its a horrible fight because your not really intended to interact with it. just run around until his hardcoded main character fighting the demon inside moment lets you comfortably commit to an attack and then your done in 10 minutes or less. its horrible.

you can iframe dodge through most of his multisweep combos without any dodge skills (i dont' run extender), if you hit the timing for the first one the second one is basically free, if its a 4 combo its the same, hit the first and you'll hit the rest. the rest of his attacks you can walk right or left to dodge, hes' actually a really good fight that rewards aggressive play and thoughtful dodging

[Wingnut Mcmoomoo]

引用自 overmage：

I don't understand the complaints, did him in 6 minutes first try, and also iframed half his long combo. Maybe it's because I'm fresh off special investigations but he feels fine.

yeah he's got very generous dodge timings, you can dodge through everything skill-less

[Dark.Chaoz.Bringer]

引用自 overmage：

I don't understand the complaints, did him in 6 minutes first try, and also iframed half his long combo. Maybe it's because I'm fresh off special investigations but he feels fine.

First and foremost, unless you're on Team Darkside, running evade window, or conflating iframes with the use of counters and such, nobody is (consistently) iframing anything in any Monster Hunter game.

That aside, if you're not understanding the complaints (in THIS discussion I assume), you're either willfully ignoring what's being and/or doing the typical internet thing of brushing it off as "person criticizing the thing is just bad or views the thing as hard". Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody in this entire discussion thus far has stated that the fight is too hard. Moreover, those that have criticized the fight have VERY clearly detailed their grievances with it, which again, have NOT been anything along the lines of it being hard/difficult.