Kinsects were not handled well in Rise

[Pyramid Head's Meat Socket]

That's not to say that they weren't an improvement from World, The introduction to plenty of skills to help with either extract uptime, power combinations, and dual colour as its own skill was pretty great.... though the problem is that these skills are tied to specific kinsects.

It'd be good if it could be switched around regardless of what kinsect you had equipped since it's looking like they'll all be stuck at rarity 7 and no new insects will come with the next update, because of this you need to downgrade your kinsect back to base rise kinsects if you want to diversify your builds with a kinsect that's not base sunbreak and that usually isn't really worth it. Even cosmetically they feel neglected since every paid DLC layered weapon for insect glaive leaves the kinsect out as well so they look a bit incomplete.

Though I can't deny that performance wise the weapon is in a better spot, just felt like some touches were missed with kinsects which could have made the weapon much better, perhaps perfect even.

[Mika gunhild]

İlk olarak DisbandedBag7 tarafından gönderildi:

Playing Rise/Sunbreak, I feel like there's no reason to use anything other than the Gleambeetle and the Foebeetle, which is real shame. They're skills are just too damn good, especially Forbeetle's dual colour.

I love the speed kinsect designs, but why would I use them when Assist Kinsects are so good. Kind of kills it.

speed kinsect automatically consume the speed boost as bonus dmg if you use your hard hitting attack so you dont have to send them

also IG sunbreak move "kinsect slash" automatically store a color buff without you sending the kinsect, so its a good reason to use other bug aside from dual-color

[DisbandedBag7]

İlk olarak Mikakunin tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak DisbandedBag7 tarafından gönderildi:

Playing Rise/Sunbreak, I feel like there's no reason to use anything other than the Gleambeetle and the Foebeetle, which is real shame. They're skills are just too damn good, especially Forbeetle's dual colour.

I love the speed kinsect designs, but why would I use them when Assist Kinsects are so good. Kind of kills it.

speed kinsect automatically consume the speed boost as bonus dmg if you use your hard hitting attack so you dont have to send them

I just tested it. How does that work? Whichspeen kinsects? Is there a guide some where explaining how to use it? What's the hard hitting attack "Tornado" or "Diving Wyvern". This is really intriguing. It could open up a whole new play style.

[Remi]

Kinsect rating based on overall depth, skill expression, and variety, descending from best to worst:

- Iceborne: Powder plus kinsect drill, heavy skill expression, nice variety like Kinsect only due to the slinger ammo feeding mechanics drastically buffing the Kinsect's elemental value.

- GU: Most variety, Kinsects provided buffs like tremor res, hero's shield, sharpness restore, Mind's Eye, 30% affinity, and so on. They also had coordinated attacks with awakened brave mode, making them able to collect extracts for you while you attacked.

- World: Powder but no slinger buffing, yet still a valuable addition, as marking heads was an easy way to stun monsters on command. World mainly was the first time IG was able to actually aim the reticle correctly.

- 4U: The most basic, down-to-earth Kinsect, yet with potent abilities. The targeting system is tragically bad, imagine fighting Deviljho and not being able to gather red from his head as it is too high up, so you had to use the pheromone shot to mark his head in order to have a chance to get red.
Then there's Apex Jho who bounces on his head, so to gather red extract you need to have your Drive wystone active, wasting its uptime by a lot.

- Rise: Assist Kinsects were a mistake, the generally watered down IG was made even easier by almost removing the signature buff maintenance due to double color Kinsects. Blunt Kinsects not inheriting the Glaive's element is another bizarre lack of depth. Also a base game, but World's base Kinsects felt much more like the old games' Kinsects, where obtaining each buff felt much more impactful and rewarding than in Rise, where two send outs get you triple up in 2 seconds.

- Sunbreak: I really wish spamming Tetraseal with assist Kinsects wasn't the optimal combo outside of Diving Wyvern spam. Spam enough Tetraseal and your assist Kinsect will drop easy mode triple up refreshes all over the ground, now IG no longer has to maintain buffs.
That means IG is now similar to LS which doesn't have to land any spirit roundslashes to get red spirit anymore, but instead just spams Sakura Slash and then spends the gauge on Sacred Sheathe.

None of this is talking about the actual Glaive portion, but the rating would probably be the same, as Iceborne's IG is extremely enjoyable, even though GU's IG is the most balanced and true to the original (overpowered) iteration.

[Mika gunhild]

İlk olarak DisbandedBag7 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Mikakunin tarafından gönderildi:

speed kinsect automatically consume the speed boost as bonus dmg if you use your hard hitting attack so you dont have to send them

I just tested it. How does that work? Whichspeen kinsects? Is there a guide some where explaining how to use it? What's the hard hitting attack "Tornado" or "Diving Wyvern". This is really intriguing. It could open up a whole new play style.

sorry i just tested it as well, its foliacath kinsect and only work with kinsect slash
diving wyvern,tetraslash and tornado doesnt trigger it

it deal 170 on my raw build at weakspot and 224 on elemental build(dmg are depending on your build) charge time around 2 second

[Pyramid Head's Meat Socket]

İlk olarak Remi tarafından gönderildi:

Kinsect rating based on overall depth, skill expression, and variety, descending from best to worst:

- Iceborne: Powder plus kinsect drill, heavy skill expression, nice variety like Kinsect only due to the slinger ammo feeding mechanics drastically buffing the Kinsect's elemental value.

- GU: Most variety, Kinsects provided buffs like tremor res, hero's shield, sharpness restore, Mind's Eye, 30% affinity, and so on. They also had coordinated attacks with awakened brave mode, making them able to collect extracts for you while you attacked.

- World: Powder but no slinger buffing, yet still a valuable addition, as marking heads was an easy way to stun monsters on command. World mainly was the first time IG was able to actually aim the reticle correctly.

- 4U: The most basic, down-to-earth Kinsect, yet with potent abilities. The targeting system is tragically bad, imagine fighting Deviljho and not being able to gather red from his head as it is too high up, so you had to use the pheromone shot to mark his head in order to have a chance to get red.
Then there's Apex Jho who bounces on his head, so to gather red extract you need to have your Drive wystone active, wasting its uptime by a lot.

- Rise: Assist Kinsects were a mistake, the generally watered down IG was made even easier by almost removing the signature buff maintenance due to double color Kinsects. Blunt Kinsects not inheriting the Glaive's element is another bizarre lack of depth. Also a base game, but World's base Kinsects felt much more like the old games' Kinsects, where obtaining each buff felt much more impactful and rewarding than in Rise, where two send outs get you triple up in 2 seconds.

- Sunbreak: I really wish spamming Tetraseal with assist Kinsects wasn't the optimal combo outside of Diving Wyvern spam. Spam enough Tetraseal and your assist Kinsect will drop easy mode triple up refreshes all over the ground, now IG no longer has to maintain buffs.
That means IG is now similar to LS which doesn't have to land any spirit roundslashes to get red spirit anymore, but instead just spams Sakura Slash and then spends the gauge on Sacred Sheathe.

None of this is talking about the actual Glaive portion, but the rating would probably be the same, as Iceborne's IG is extremely enjoyable, even though GU's IG is the most balanced and true to the original (overpowered) iteration.

Oh man now I really want to try out GU

[DisbandedBag7]

İlk olarak Mikakunin tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak DisbandedBag7 tarafından gönderildi:

I just tested it. How does that work? Whichspeen kinsects? Is there a guide some where explaining how to use it? What's the hard hitting attack "Tornado" or "Diving Wyvern". This is really intriguing. It could open up a whole new play style.

sorry i just tested it as well, its foliacath kinsect and only work with kinsect slash
diving wyvern,tetraslash and tornado doesnt trigger it

it deal 170 on my raw build at weakspot and 224 on elemental build(dmg are depending on your build) charge time around 2 second

Bummer. Damn, I was getting really excited. No worries.

[Remi]

İlk olarak Pyramid Head's Meat Socket tarafından gönderildi:

Oh man now I really want to try out GU :Hearthian_Smile:

Eh, assist Kinsect's coordinated attacks are pretty much copied from GU, and the Silkbind Vault wirebug skill is a carbon copy of GU's Aerial Style. Sunbreak has many cool features but sadly introduced too many aspects which remove or oversimplify gameplay elements such as buff maintenance, making gameplay feel more like I'm mashing buttons rather than waiting for openings and getting one circle attack in one the weakspot after successfully sniping the extracts.

The unique Kinsect buffs in GU all sound nice until you realize that that one speed Kinsect's 30% affinity from white extract is beyond broken, yet that still doesn't remove the buff upkeeping mechanics. So yeah, Kinsects were never perfect (although IB came close to perfection), but Rise and Sunbreak just simplified too many aspects of the weapon for me to enjoy it as much as I used to in 4U or World.

[DisbandedBag7]

İlk olarak Pyramid Head's Meat Socket tarafından gönderildi:

Oh man now I really want to try out GU :Hearthian_Smile:

Try it. It awesome. It's a bit slower at the start. But when it revs up, it really brings the heat.

There's one more thing I want to say, despite Rise/Sunbreaks many flaws when it comes to the IG, I gotta give them credit.

1. They've always marketed the IG as an "Aerial" weapon. When really it never was. But in Sunbreak they succeeded. The most efficient way to play is Diving Wyvern spam. It's kind of boring imo, but hey at least they did what they set out to for last ten years: they made an aerial weapon!

2. This might be controversial, but Sunbreak has the most "Diverse" Kinsect. Let me explain, in GU there's only on Pair of kinsects (Blunt and sever, the system was different in the older games) that were used (There's the Triple Up one, but few actually uses them.

In Sunbreak, there are like four that are used Charged Chain, Extract Powder, Dual Colour, and Powder Vortex (Yes, even in Speedrunning). And they actually have their own unique abilities. In the older games, it really was just stats that made the difference.

[Qua2ar]

İlk olarak Remi tarafından gönderildi:

Kinsect rating based on overall depth, skill expression, and variety, descending from best to worst:

- Iceborne: Powder plus kinsect drill, heavy skill expression, nice variety like Kinsect only due to the slinger ammo feeding mechanics drastically buffing the Kinsect's elemental value.

- GU: Most variety, Kinsects provided buffs like tremor res, hero's shield, sharpness restore, Mind's Eye, 30% affinity, and so on. They also had coordinated attacks with awakened brave mode, making them able to collect extracts for you while you attacked.

- World: Powder but no slinger buffing, yet still a valuable addition, as marking heads was an easy way to stun monsters on command. World mainly was the first time IG was able to actually aim the reticle correctly.

- 4U: The most basic, down-to-earth Kinsect, yet with potent abilities. The targeting system is tragically bad, imagine fighting Deviljho and not being able to gather red from his head as it is too high up, so you had to use the pheromone shot to mark his head in order to have a chance to get red.
Then there's Apex Jho who bounces on his head, so to gather red extract you need to have your Drive wystone active, wasting its uptime by a lot.

- Rise: Assist Kinsects were a mistake, the generally watered down IG was made even easier by almost removing the signature buff maintenance due to double color Kinsects. Blunt Kinsects not inheriting the Glaive's element is another bizarre lack of depth. Also a base game, but World's base Kinsects felt much more like the old games' Kinsects, where obtaining each buff felt much more impactful and rewarding than in Rise, where two send outs get you triple up in 2 seconds.

- Sunbreak: I really wish spamming Tetraseal with assist Kinsects wasn't the optimal combo outside of Diving Wyvern spam. Spam enough Tetraseal and your assist Kinsect will drop easy mode triple up refreshes all over the ground, now IG no longer has to maintain buffs.
That means IG is now similar to LS which doesn't have to land any spirit roundslashes to get red spirit anymore, but instead just spams Sakura Slash and then spends the gauge on Sacred Sheathe.

None of this is talking about the actual Glaive portion, but the rating would probably be the same, as Iceborne's IG is extremely enjoyable, even though GU's IG is the most balanced and true to the original (overpowered) iteration.

Acting like insect glaive wasn't just another longsword from the start, cope. It's longsword with weird buff mechanics, always has been.
I will state this: If they never added insect glaive to the game, it wouldn't have been worse off at all, that's how little impact it has. The flying around stuff is just cringe.
The fact that they watered it down in rise and world just proves that the devs agree with me on this, they want to make it even more like longsword.

[Dagný]

İlk olarak Remi tarafından gönderildi:

Rise and Sunbreak just simplified too many aspects of the weapon for me to enjoy it as much as I used to in 4U or World.

Good posts, that's pretty much what I always say when people talk about IG in rise. I don't particularly like that they removed the green extract as well to use it on the normal rarity 2 kinsect instead.

The wide-range bug in GU (Arginesse?) can heal almost half HP in Iceborne with 1 green extract, why remove that?
There is this one Arena quest in world where they don't give you any healing items to fight a deviljho (or savage, i don't remember now) but the IG had a healing kinsect bonus and the kinsect itself had good healing stats so all you can do when you get hit is get the green extract from jho's tail. Now it's gone, tons of HP draining skills but no green extract.

[Pyramid Head's Meat Socket]

İlk olarak Qua2ar tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Remi tarafından gönderildi:

Kinsect rating based on overall depth, skill expression, and variety, descending from best to worst:

- Iceborne: Powder plus kinsect drill, heavy skill expression, nice variety like Kinsect only due to the slinger ammo feeding mechanics drastically buffing the Kinsect's elemental value.

- GU: Most variety, Kinsects provided buffs like tremor res, hero's shield, sharpness restore, Mind's Eye, 30% affinity, and so on. They also had coordinated attacks with awakened brave mode, making them able to collect extracts for you while you attacked.

- World: Powder but no slinger buffing, yet still a valuable addition, as marking heads was an easy way to stun monsters on command. World mainly was the first time IG was able to actually aim the reticle correctly.

- 4U: The most basic, down-to-earth Kinsect, yet with potent abilities. The targeting system is tragically bad, imagine fighting Deviljho and not being able to gather red from his head as it is too high up, so you had to use the pheromone shot to mark his head in order to have a chance to get red.
Then there's Apex Jho who bounces on his head, so to gather red extract you need to have your Drive wystone active, wasting its uptime by a lot.

- Rise: Assist Kinsects were a mistake, the generally watered down IG was made even easier by almost removing the signature buff maintenance due to double color Kinsects. Blunt Kinsects not inheriting the Glaive's element is another bizarre lack of depth. Also a base game, but World's base Kinsects felt much more like the old games' Kinsects, where obtaining each buff felt much more impactful and rewarding than in Rise, where two send outs get you triple up in 2 seconds.

- Sunbreak: I really wish spamming Tetraseal with assist Kinsects wasn't the optimal combo outside of Diving Wyvern spam. Spam enough Tetraseal and your assist Kinsect will drop easy mode triple up refreshes all over the ground, now IG no longer has to maintain buffs.
That means IG is now similar to LS which doesn't have to land any spirit roundslashes to get red spirit anymore, but instead just spams Sakura Slash and then spends the gauge on Sacred Sheathe.

None of this is talking about the actual Glaive portion, but the rating would probably be the same, as Iceborne's IG is extremely enjoyable, even though GU's IG is the most balanced and true to the original (overpowered) iteration.

Acting like insect glaive wasn't just another longsword from the start, cope. It's longsword with weird buff mechanics, always has been.
I will state this: If they never added insect glaive to the game, it wouldn't have been worse off at all, that's how little impact it has. The flying around stuff is just cringe.
The fact that they watered it down in rise and world just proves that the devs agree with me on this, they want to make it even more like longsword.

who hurt you?
So funny to see someone this pressed hard to tell if this is a troll or a child.

[kampfer91]

It is only in Rise that most weapon can initiate attack on the air / jump freely . Before they need to jump off cliff while IG not only can jump but also have longer combo on the air so the notion of IG is aerial weapon still correct .

[Valentine (Lunaticus)]

İlk olarak DisbandedBag7 tarafından gönderildi:

IIRC it's not the same though. You had to gather extract two times manually. In Rise you send the kinect out once, you automatically get two colours. In World you send it out, it gathers one, then you have to hit different spot for a different colour. And then yu recall to get two extracts.

Oh that thing. Yeah, that's not the same at all.


Sounds like some people actually like the buff mechanics. I found them to be just annoying, which is why I didn't like IG much in World. I also find it so bizarre that your moveset just sucks if you don't have a particular buff on you. I do miss the whole fighting with your Kinsect at the same time and getting them to attack the weak point thing, that was kinda fun. I dunno if there are Kinsects here that do that well, but I'm not gonna give up the dual color mechanic anyway for it.

[Dagný]

İlk olarak Valentine (Lunaticus) tarafından gönderildi:

I also find it so bizarre that your moveset just sucks if you don't have a particular buff on you.

People always say this but all weapons with micromanagement share similar burdens, you always have to do something 1st to unlock the weapons full potential and when you do you have to manage that period as well.

Look at CB: guard sucks without red shield, you can't savage axe and saed without red shield and phials and you have to do boring sword attacks to fill them

Would making red shield and full phials the default state of the weapon attract new players? yes.
Would they say it's the best thing that ever happened to the weapon? yes
But that would make people who liked that process very angry and disappointed.

[Valentine (Lunaticus)]

İlk olarak Dahlia Hawthorne tarafından gönderildi:

People always say this but all weapons with micromanagement share similar burdens, you always have to do something 1st to unlock the weapons full potential and when you do you have to manage that period as well.

Look at CB: guard sucks without red shield, you can't savage axe and saed without red shield and phials and you have to do boring sword attacks to fill them

Would making red shield and full phials the default state of the weapon attract new players? yes.
Would they say it's the best thing that ever happened to the weapon? yes
But that would make people who liked that process very angry and disappointed.

But wouldn't it be more enjoyable to get buffs that would actually make something interesting instead of just the "weapon is useless without this" kind of stuff. I'm not saying to remove the buff aspect of the weapon, but I'd rework red buff to do something else instead. If you like the buff gathering aspect that much, wouldn't you want buffs that did something more immediate that you would benefit from gathering more than just once every now and then? Like green buff, but different effects.

Also in regards to your comparison to CB. While making red shield as the default state is comparable to this (though it's not as drastic of a difference as IG red buff), making full phials default isn't comparable in the slightest to IG buffs, it's a completely different kind of mechanic. That'd be like giving the modern LS with its gauge spending moves infinite red gauge. It's in a completely different ballpark than giving IG infinite buffs. No one in their right mind would say that kind of thing is the best thing ever done to the weapons, that's a very silly thing to suggest. Unlike with IG, those sort of changes would require a complete overhaul of those weapons. I get that you like that buff gathering stuff, but let's not compare apples to oranges now.

This does make me wonder how many people do like the sort of mechanics like IG buffs and CB red shield.