MONSTER HUNTER RISE

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Ryeon 2022 年 7 月 29 日 上午 7:17
Why are people using Valstrax (dragon element) weapons against Valstrax?
I'm confused

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So from the discussions so far:

1. Aiming for its high raw and long white sharpness, since Val is immune to elements during its enraged state.
2. They simply have no clue that Val's weak to all elements except Dragon.
3. Fashiun
最后由 Ryeon 编辑于; 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 9:01
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正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 64 条留言
Seamus 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 5:18 
引用自 Yagger
引用自 Seamus
No, world's star system was even more inaccurate.
you're saying these things, but not showing your work .
Go take a look at Alatreon's stars at some point.

By the star system, he's supposedly weak to dragon.

But he's not. Alatreon spends almost no time in his base state where that's actually the case.

World's star system is trash.

Rise's system is missing information, but it's still more accurate.
最后由 Seamus 编辑于; 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 5:18
Dagný 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 5:45 
引用自 Seamus
引用自 Yagger
you're saying these things, but not showing your work .
Go take a look at Alatreon's stars at some point.

By the star system, he's supposedly weak to dragon.

But he's not. Alatreon spends almost no time in his base state where that's actually the case.

World's star system is trash.

Rise's system is missing information, but it's still more accurate.

The problem with the alatreon's chart is that Water should've been 3 starts to fire active mode and Thunder the same 3 stars to Ice active.
Dragon being 2 stars during dragon mode is exactly what it is
Seamus 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 5:51 
引用自 Dahlia Hawthorne
引用自 Seamus
Go take a look at Alatreon's stars at some point.

By the star system, he's supposedly weak to dragon.

But he's not. Alatreon spends almost no time in his base state where that's actually the case.

World's star system is trash.

Rise's system is missing information, but it's still more accurate.

The problem with the alatreon's chart is that Water should've been 3 starts to fire active mode and Thunder the same 3 stars to Ice active.
Dragon being 2 stars during dragon mode is exactly what it is
Dragon being 2 stars is still incredibly inaccurate and gives a false sense that dragon is of ANY use on the fight.

And, no, water should not be 3 star for fire active as it is does less than ice to fire mode.

Same goes for thunder vs ice mode.

The star system is crap. Actual charts are better, they're just incomplete.
Dagný 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 5:57 
引用自 Seamus
引用自 Dahlia Hawthorne

The problem with the alatreon's chart is that Water should've been 3 starts to fire active mode and Thunder the same 3 stars to Ice active.
Dragon being 2 stars during dragon mode is exactly what it is
Dragon being 2 stars is still incredibly inaccurate and gives a false sense that dragon is of ANY use on the fight.

And, no, water should not be 3 star for fire active as it is does less than ice to fire mode.

Same goes for thunder vs ice mode.

The star system is crap. Actual charts are better, they're just incomplete.

Water/Thunder do slightly less damage than Ice/Fire respectively, you can reach the topple almost as fast

When you invert the elements (water against ice active and vice versa) you have a much harder time to reach the topple than dragon (1star-1star vs 1star-2stars)

So I think dragon 2 stars is accurate and water/thunder should've been 3 stars
Seamus 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 6:09 
引用自 Dahlia Hawthorne
Water/Thunder do slightly less damage than Ice/Fire respectively, you can reach the topple almost as fast
Which is why making them three star is a bad idea.
When you invert the elements (water against ice active and vice versa) you have a much harder time to reach the topple than dragon (1star-1star vs 1star-2stars)
Dragon does functionally nothing against either fire or ice active. Highest hzv for it in either state is a whopping two.
So I think dragon 2 stars is accurate and water/thunder should've been 3 stars
Except dragon ONLY works during the dragon state after the topple. Aka: The part of the fight you don't need element for. And even then, it's less damage than using ice/fire on the proper respective states.

It is otherwise useless.
最后由 Seamus 编辑于; 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 6:10
ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣ 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 8:00 
i'm one of the people who assumed he was weak to dragon for a big chunk of time, because he is a dragon lol

i'm also one of those people who thought alatreon had some weakness to dragon element in mhw because of the book when he realistically doesn't, like at all, so agreeing with seamus here. mhw's book is weird in multiple areas, i vastly prefer rise's
Penny Dreadful 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 8:08 
引用自 Nauct
I just use the weapon that looks the coolest, fight me
smdh everyone else in this thread doesn't even know the true endgame of every Monster Hunter: fashion
Veritas 2022 年 7 月 29 日 下午 8:13 
Valstrax weapons have good deco slots and 140 hits of white sharpness with high raw. So even on monsters not weak to dragon or immune it's still one of the best current weapons, especially if your charm is not very good.

Final boss weapons all have negative affinity and 80 purple so with a bad charm it can be hard to make them consistently good weapons.
Valentine (Lunaticus) 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 5:53 
引用自 Seamus
Except dragon ONLY works during the dragon state after the topple. Aka: The part of the fight you don't need element for. And even then, it's less damage than using ice/fire on the proper respective states.

It is otherwise useless.
You can reach the elemental topple during the Dragon phase too, if you didn't reach it during the Ice/Fire state then you need to do it during Dragon phase whether you have a Dragon weapon or not. And some people did the elemental topple with Dragon weapons even solo.

So no, it's not useless.
最后由 Valentine (Lunaticus) 编辑于; 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 5:54
Seamus 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 7:58 
引用自 Seamus
Except dragon ONLY works during the dragon state after the topple. Aka: The part of the fight you don't need element for. And even then, it's less damage than using ice/fire on the proper respective states.

It is otherwise useless.
You can reach the elemental topple during the Dragon phase too, if you didn't reach it during the Ice/Fire state then you need to do it during Dragon phase whether you have a Dragon weapon or not. And some people did the elemental topple with Dragon weapons even solo.

So no, it's not useless.
No, it's still useless.

https://i.imgur.com/1aWY1xe.png

It does barely more damage than elements that are actually useful during the rest of the fight.

Don't use dragon on alatreon. It's actively bad.
Remi 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 8:13 
引用自 Seamus
Except dragon ONLY works during the dragon state after the topple. Aka: The part of the fight you don't need element for. And even then, it's less damage than using ice/fire on the proper respective states.

It is otherwise useless.
You can reach the elemental topple during the Dragon phase too, if you didn't reach it during the Ice/Fire state then you need to do it during Dragon phase whether you have a Dragon weapon or not. And some people did the elemental topple with Dragon weapons even solo.

So no, it's not useless.
His dragon hitzones are 1 or 2 at best in fire/ice state. That means a 100 true element weapon (1000 displayed) will hit for 1 or 2 damage per hit. Of course weapons like Dual Blades are able to hit the elemental treshold even when dealing only 1 element per hit during fire/ice, but most of their elemental damage is still dealt during dragon, which he spends the least time in. And even in dragon state his dragon weakness is very similar to his fire/ice weaknesses, which do 10-20 times more elemental damage during fire/ice than dragon element does during fire/ice. There's a reason many people complained about Alatreon back then, because they didn't understand just how bad dragon was due to the star system stating the weakness to be "1 star" when it should be "0.01 star".

So any element, even no element, is superior to dragon, unless your dragon element is on a Fatalis weapon, then go ahead and smash that 85 raw hitzone head.

For the topic, I'm not sure honestly. MR Valfalk weapons are really easy to use and build for, and the difference compared to a blast or poison raw weapon would not be too big, especially in multiplayer where HP values are inflated. Compared to Gaismagorm's weapons on Valfalk, his own weapons might be similarly powerful, so it's just a matter of preference. I believe DB runs high raw weapons that have some element for when Valfalk isn't enraged, but it's really hard to judge how much that element is contributing towards your overall damage.
最后由 Remi 编辑于; 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 8:17
Sera 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 8:22 
Pretty sure, Its giant white sharpness bar. I use wrong element all time, across several weapons, simply do to weapon having good raw and sharpness.

5min kill or 6mins. I don't care. I'm not showing off on youtube, nor do I care what others think. XD

QoL =3

Thou, few weapon types like DB or Bow, do I tend to lean towards right element. I tend to Lance/HBG Val, element doesn't really matter.
Chomp Dude 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 8:32 
Could just be that the Valstrax weapons are pretty decent. That or the fact that Valstrax can inflict dragonblight thus rendering every element and status other than dragon inert, even if it's temporary. Personally if I were to fight Valstrax I'd probably just go non-elemental. Most people don't really worry about element and go for raw and sharpness first and foremost.

For instance, the final bosses' Greatsword is pretty good despite it's negative affinity. I've never taken into account the dragon element on it when using it.
Dagný 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 8:48 
引用自 Seamus
You can reach the elemental topple during the Dragon phase too, if you didn't reach it during the Ice/Fire state then you need to do it during Dragon phase whether you have a Dragon weapon or not. And some people did the elemental topple with Dragon weapons even solo.

So no, it's not useless.
No, it's still useless.

https://i.imgur.com/1aWY1xe.png

It does barely more damage than elements that are actually useful during the rest of the fight.

Don't use dragon on alatreon. It's actively bad.
Someone using dragon and hitting the forelegs during dragon mode does the same amount of elemental damage as someone using ice and hitting the head while in fire mode
let that sink in
Seamus 2022 年 7 月 30 日 上午 8:50 
引用自 Dahlia Hawthorne
引用自 Seamus
No, it's still useless.

https://i.imgur.com/1aWY1xe.png

It does barely more damage than elements that are actually useful during the rest of the fight.

Don't use dragon on alatreon. It's actively bad.
Someone using dragon and hitting the forelegs during dragon mode does the same amount of elemental damage as someone using ice and hitting the head while in fire mode
let that sink in
And they contribute far less to the fight as a whole.
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发帖日期: 2022 年 7 月 29 日 上午 7:17
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